Examination of Witnesses (Questions 40-44)
Detective Chief Inspector Tony McCarthy
10 OCTOBER 2007
Q40 Lord Teverson: In terms of the problem
with borders in Eastern Europe when those countries actually become
full members of the Schengen system itself, yes, I understand
that entirely, but why do you think it is any more difficult for
us than it would be for the Netherlands or Sweden that would have
similar issues?
Detective Chief Inspector McCarthy: I think
the initial thought that comes to mind would be that our involvement
politically as a nation abroad in various circumstances, Iraq
and Afghanistan, makes us a particular target.
Q41 Chairman: I think in a sense you have
answered the last question I wanted to put to you which really
relates to Schengen in a different context and the Schengen Information
System II, SIS II, on which this Committee has produced a report
and incidentally we are about to have a debate in the House of
Lords on Friday on the subject, but we are a bit concerned, I
think, that ministers have told us that the United Kingdom will
not be ready to connect to SIS II until April 2010 which is rather
a long way away. Are you worried at all about the effect that
this delay might have on policing and border control enforcement?
Detective Chief Inspector McCarthy: I do not
have a great deal of knowledge in this area, to be honest, but
I would say that obviously any delay in our signing up to a database
which would provide additional means for gathering intelligence
or information that might help in the fight against terrorism
of course would be to our detriment and it could not otherwise
be.
Chairman: I think we are all familiar with the hideous
problems that concern any large database, some of them caused
by fires in an entirely unrelated neighbouring property, but I
think we merely note that.
Q42 Lord Marlesford: In your paper, paragraph
12, you say, "It would be beneficial for UK police to gain
a better understanding of (and influence) the EU Integrated Border
Management (IBM) approach that has been adopted". I wonder
if I could draw you out a bit on that because that is not directly
Frontex, is it, or is it something else?
Detective Chief Inspector McCarthy: It is an
element of Frontex and it is something that I had some involvement
in while working with the border services in Bosnia and Herzegovina
and it was basically the integration of border controls, working
in a unified way across the region within the EU in order to be
able to connect, connectivity in particular to connect to each
other and maintain good communication systems to prevent wrongdoers
from entering the EU as this first line of defence.
Q43 Lord Marlesford: That sounds very sensible,
so what is happening as a result of the view that it is desirable?
Detective Chief Inspector McCarthy: Again, it
is more based on immigration rather than counter-terrorism which
means that it is more the Border and Immigration Agency's area
of responsibility. However, it is something very obviously that
we have a keen interest in and want to become more involved in
and we see the portal for doing that as being Frontex.
Q44 Chairman: Chief Inspector, it remains
for me to thank you very much. You have been extremely helpful.
If, on consideration, you think there is anything that you could
usefully add in writing, please feel free to write to us, but
otherwise thank you very much for the very comprehensive and extremely
useful replies to our questions and thank you for coming. We wish
you all the best.
Detective Chief Inspector McCarthy: Thank you,
my Lord.
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