Examination of Witnesses (Questions 120-126)
Mr Simon Busuttil, Mr Gérard Deprez, Mr Javier
Moreno Sanchez and Ms Hélène Calers
16 OCTOBER 2007
Q120 Chairman: And I think we were
similarly told by the Commission.
Ms Calers: Yes, Frontex itself. It is in the
regulation of Frontex that they can negotiate such agreements
with third countries.
Q121 Chairman: We were told by the
Commission this afternoon that there is also an agreement between
Frontex and Russia.
Ms Calers: That I would not know.
Mr Deprez: But only in the specific fields of
competence of Frontex, not in foreign policy and development co-operation.
Chairman: That might well be. Lord Teverson?
Lord Teverson: All I was going to say, my Lord
Chairman, is that we think it is particularly within the powers
of Frontex to do that, but I had interpreted this question as,
in a way, should not trying to get co-operation from third parties
be a part of this? You use other bits of EU foreign and development
policy to get leverage on third countries to make these agreements.
Surely, like us in the world of politics, in the world that you
live in you use your leverage on budgets to get the Director of
Frontex sitting here talking to you, and then you get Libya in
front of Frontex to do a third party agreement by some other pressure
that is put on through the neighbourhood agreements or whatever.
That is surely how it works, is it not?
Q122 Chairman: But by individual
states or by Europe?
Mr Busuttil: By the European Union itself as
well. If I may, that is already being done. To take one example,
the African, Caribbean and Pacific countries with which the European
Union has one comprehensive agreement known as the Lomé
Convention, now the Cotonou Agreement, has in Article 13 a provision
which specifically states that any national of either party who
is illegally staying on the territory of the other party has to
be repatriated and therefore there is an obligation of re-admission,
of accepting back this person. This is found in Article 13 of
the Cotonou Agreement, the new agreement with the ACP countries.
It is already there, but does it mean that it is enforced? The
answer is probably no, it is not.
Q123 Chairman: We now come to a question
which I think to some extent has been dealt with by Mr Moreno
Sanchez and also by Mr Deprez, looking at the future of Frontex.
From the point of view of the European Union Parliament do you
see it evolving into a more operational organisation as opposed
to a sort of co-operative and facilitating organisation, and do
you think it should evolve into co-ordination of action against
terrorism or other serious crime as opposed to purely illegal
immigration? Would one of you like to answer that? The broader
you can make it the better. How do you see the future evolution
of Frontex?
Mr Moreno Sanchez: I do believe in the necessity
of a common approach based on an integrated control of the borders
in co-operation with Frontex
Mr Deprez: Except for the United Kingdom, I
think.
Mr Moreno Sanchez: Frontex is not the only tool
but it is an important one together with the exchange of information,
in order to ensure the borders are under control
Chairman: I really cannot allow your comment to go
unanswered. The United Kingdom is actually making a very significant
contribution to Frontex—
Mr Deprez: Yes, I know.
Q124 Chairman:— both in terms
of operations and in terms of finance. I just thought it might
be worth making that comment.
Mr Deprez: But my comment was about the integrated
system of border control. It concerned a very specific situation.
I did not say that you were a bad payer in the European system.
Q125 Chairman: Has anybody any additional
points?
Mr Busuttil: I was going to support what Mr
Moreno Sanchez said. I do think that Frontex should develop further,
should become operational in its development and should become
the agency responsible for the protection and strengthening of
the external borders, not just of the Member States but also of
the Union itself. I think there is also an increasingly important
link to make between Frontex and the Schengen zone in particular,
so that once one person enters the Schengen zone there is absolute
free movement within that zone. That zone today has 15 countries,
unfortunately not including the United Kingdom, but come next
year it is going to enlarge with another nine countries, so there
is a huge territory there, and in that territory, once you have
penetrated the external border, you can move freely throughout
it without any passport checks whatsoever. However, what this
means is that it is no longer true to state that the responsibility
of our external borders resides solely with the individual Member
States. What is true is that that responsibility should as a minimum
be shared with the European Union.
Q126 Lord Young of Norwood Green:
What sort of timescale do you envisage for the development of
Frontex in the way you have described?
Mr Deprez: Ten years?
Mr Busuttil: If there is unanimity voting on
that one it is going to be a long haul.
Mr Deprez: In Article 14 of the regulation on
the European Agency for the Management of Operational Co-operation,
there is an article about the "operational co-operation"
between Member States and Frontex.
Chairman: I would like to thank our visitors
from the European Parliament very much indeed for their contribution.
As I said at the beginning, this meeting has been on the record
and you will be sent a transcript of our discussion. I really
would like to thank you all very much indeed for an extremely
helpful meeting and I wish you all the best. We will in due course,
not, sadly under my chairmanship, be producing a report and you
will, of course, receive copies of it. Thank you very much.
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