Select Committee on European Union Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 220-239)

General Ilkka Laitinen, Mr Jozsef Bali, Ms Mari Kalliala, Mr Richard Ares, Mr Sakari Vuorensola and Mr Graham Leese

23 OCTOBER 2007

  Q220  Chairman: That is over the year, is it?

  General Laitinen: Yes, comparing the same period of time in 2006 that we have now gone through in 2007. There has been a slight decrease in the central Mediterranean and I consider that to be a satisfactory result but there are some other areas, particularly eastern Mediterranean, where we have witnessed an increasing trend and that is not good news but the good thing is we know what it is all about, so we know the phenomenon as such and, therefore, we have been able to illustrate the overall picture. This perhaps could serve as a basic assessment of the work of Frontex so far. There are a lot of basic things to be completed, a lot of ongoing incomplete projects in place but we know the view is clear and we know what to do. It is a matter of prioritising and allocating the resources in an appropriate way to find the best possible solutions.

  Q221  Chairman: Thank you very much. People smuggling?

  General Laitinen: People smuggling is an issue that, unfortunately, we do have some figures on.

  Mr Bali: Yes, I have some figures. You mentioned Poseidon 2007 and in the third phase in September/October the figures were 40 facilitators, which means that in 40 cases the national authority started with an investigation. We have some results from Hera. The number of facilitators is less but it is really very difficult because it is different country-by-country based on national law. In a lot of cases we are facing the problem that on the boat there are 20 migrants plus the facilitators, but based on national law after three days they start their investigation and it is in the detention centre that it is not possible to identify the facilitator or to prove the crime. This statistic is very different. In some countries, for example on the Greek-Turkish land border, the facilitators do not cross the border, they only escort the immigrants to the border line and then send them. We know that it is organised crime and there is a facilitator but you cannot do anything against him. It is a main objective of the operation but case-by-case the figures are very different.

  Q222  Chairman: Can I remind you, I am sure unnecessarily, this is a British parliamentary inquiry and, therefore, I would like to ask a question, and I hope you will bear this question in mind in all your answers, about UK participation. How far is the UK participating in risk analysis, in operations, and have you got any comments to make on the British participation?

  General Laitinen: If I may say some general words. We have the legal background for setting up links between UK colleagues and Frontex. I consider this machinery relatively cumbersome but it is something we have been able to do. This means that practically speaking, in terms of risk analysis and also the joint operations, we do not see any difference between our UK colleagues and the others, if we just exclude the administrative or the legal preparation for that. It is also visible here in our staff. There is no difference between the UK and other colleagues here but it requires considerable effort to meet all of these practical and administrative issues. If I may come back to the previous question for clarification. It was said that human smuggling and arrest and investigation of traffickers is the key objective but it is not the key function of Frontex. It is not our function but, on the other hand, it is the key objective to bring these perpetrators to justice and suffer the consequences. This makes it somewhat, I would not say schizophrenic but it is an interesting pattern that we have to apply at the border.

  Chairman: I think that is a natural lead-in for Lord Jopling to ask his question about tasks.

  Lord Jopling: I am afraid that the list of questions that I understand we have given you and the excellent presentation this morning did not very fully cover, if I might say so, two of the six tasks which Frontex is saddled with under the Regulation. Let me just read them both out. One is 1(b) under Article 2: "assist Member States on training of national border guards, including the establishment of common training standards". Training kept coming up as part of the wider discussion this morning but I think it is important for us to know how big the training function is in Frontex, how many people are involved, how much you spend on it, how far you have got in establishing common training standards and what you are doing over the whole of EU on training national borders. For our inquiry it is very important we hear the answer to that. The second task which you are provided with is, and again I quote: "(f) provide Member States with the necessary support in organising joint return operations". I think I am right in saying the word "return" only appeared once in the very last of the slides this morning and the matter does not appear in the questions. This is obviously a very important part of your work and it is one of the six tasks. Where are you getting to on that? What are you doing about organising joint return operations? I think some of us would regard this as a hugely important part of your work and we would like to have an assessment. I am afraid the answer to this single question, which is really two questions, could keep us going for most of an hour but I am sure you will make it a bit less.

  Q223  Chairman: Can I just interrupt to say that if on this or any other point you wanted to follow up with a written comment to us we would be very happy to receive any written comments if, for instance, statistics are not immediately available and you are able to give us something in supplementary form.

  General Laitinen: Thank you very much. I am very pleased to answer both of these questions. I have to apologise that we did not manage to get a representative from the Training Unit for this event. As far as the training is concerned, it is the other core element in the entity that we call capacity building. One is research and development and training is the other. How we are performing these duties are two-fold. On the one hand, we have created a training programme which is called the Common Core Curriculum, and that is something the Regulation refers to. We are happy to publish the revised version of this Common Core Curriculum in December this year. It is a product which has been carried out, or compiled, with the close co-operation of international organisations and, of course, the Member States. It has been made under the control of two universities to ensure compatibility with the Bologna and Copenhagen processes. It is for the quality management side. This is something that already exists but will be revised. It is a basic training programme where the Member States to a certain level are committed. They do not have a legal obligation to apply that Regulation but there is only a handful of Member States that does not apply this Common Core Curriculum yet. This is for the border guard training. It is applied partly but not entirely. An additional element here is the mid-level training. We are seeking to have a Common Core Curriculum for mid-level training and we have launched periodical four-week courses for mid-level officers, so at the lieutenant/captain level, those who are in charge of one unit at the border and so on. These are the type of people who will be participating in these courses. I think the fifth or sixth course is ongoing. The duration is four weeks. Based on that experience we complement the curricula series offered to the Member States. This is one part. The other part is more risk-analysis based training activities where we arrange courses for the Member States, mainly border control authorities, on different subjects: land border related training, aeronautical training, helicopter pilot training, travel document detection training, pedagogical training for trainers and so on, and linguistic skills. There are different areas. In 2006 we established a network of partnership academies where for the time being there are nine national academies belonging to border control authorities which are together and there is common management organised by Frontex for doing these things jointly, and each of these academies are specialised in one particular topic: one for training for land border related issues, one for linguistic training, and so on. This is our instrument to promote these training activities. We are using these two issues. I am very glad to be able to inform you that for training projects for 2006 we committed almost €500,000 for that purpose and for the time being for 2007 the commitment for training purposes is almost €2 million. It is quite an active field of our functions and training. This is very important bearing in mind capacity building for the longer term investment in operational co-operation. May I now turn to—

  Q224  Lord Jopling: How many of the projected 198 personnel next year will be involved on the training side?

  General Laitinen: For the time being I think the staff number of training units—I will have to double-check—is eight, nine, 10 people. I will have to check it and give you a precise answer.

  Lord Jopling: Thank you.

  Chairman: I think Lord Listowel may have a quick question.

  Earl of Listowel: It is not a quick one. I am afraid following from both of your questions there is something I would like to ask.

  Q225  Chairman: Let us go on to answer the second question and then we will come back to that.

  General Laitinen: As far as the return operations are concerned, it is stipulated in a slightly different way in the Regulation to provide necessary support or assistance to the Member States, which means that we have not adopted that active role in this particular area. Our main objective and guideline for performing these functions is we focus more on the capacity building and the longer term investment in that, compiling best practices for the acquisition of travel documents, best practices for carrying out joint return operations and those kinds of things. We have created the Core Country Group where for the time being there are seven such European Member States who have been the most active in arranging return operations, mainly by air, where they are planning and implementing these rules and guidelines. Our role is to spread this news to all the other Member States as to what could be available for their needs in that way. Another feature which is worth mentioning is we have conveyed the other financial possibilities of the European Community to this operational field knowing that the return operations are extremely expensive and it is not possible to allocate money sufficiently from Frontex's budget. We convey this money from the so-called Return Fund, which is a future instrument, and its predecessor, which is this kind of temporary financial instrument, to those countries that can use it for their purposes. We do have limits operationally speaking in performing return operations and we focus more on capacity building, gathering best practices and promoting the Member States to carry out these duties by themselves.

  Q226  Earl of Listowel: May I ask a brief question. You may feel that perhaps you can attach your answer to it to some of our later questions but maybe a brief answer now as well. My Lord Chairman referred to your expectations of Frontex, but the expectations placed on Frontex by others seem to me increasingly to be unrealistic. It seems to me that your work depends very much on the goodwill of different states, both within the European Union and outside, and that goodwill depends on the quality of the work that you do. It seems to me the danger is that as expectations are raised on what you can deliver, the very quality of what you can provide may be undermined and you may not be able to add the value to the border services that you wish to. There is a danger also that you might begin to seem to be superseding the role of certain Member States rather than supporting the role that they have, their responsibility for their own national border guard service. I do not know if you feel that is a realistic concern but certainly it is something that has come through to me in the course of this inquiry. Perhaps, as I say, you can attach your answer to that in later questions.

  General Laitinen: Yes.

  Earl of Listowel: Thank you.

  Q227  Chairman: Do you want to respond to that?

  General Laitinen: It may be a good idea to tackle this issue. Your conclusion on the expectations is right. We have been struggling with the more or less realistic or unrealistic expectations from different sectors towards Frontex. The common denominator in this case is that the role and the remit of Frontex has not been entirely understood, either by accident or deliberately. Very often we have felt that Frontex is considered to be a European panacea for all border related issues and if there are some problems at the external borders it is Frontex who is in charge of that instead of considering Frontex to be a co-ordinator to co-ordinate such co-operation where the Member States participate of their own volition. That is the difference and it is a very persistent challenge for us to spread the news on that. When it comes to our assets I would put it into three corners of a triangle. The first one is our financial resources, the second one, which to a certain extent is related to the first, is our human resources, and in the third corner is the willingness of the Member States to participate in joint operations. This means that the budget and human resources sides are only two corners of the triangle which cannot be the only successful factor for these challenges. For the time being, and more in the future, the Member States play a critical role in this regard. If we have finances, if we have capable, sufficient and professional staff, that is not enough if there is nobody to participate in this co-operation where we act as the co-ordinator. If we think of it more from the management point of view, the development of Frontex and how the budget and human resources have been developed during these two years of our existence, it is a soaring threat, it is a drastic increase and it is anticipated to continue in the future. This is a challenge for such a new organisation which is still building the basic procedure, the sound financial management, the human resources management, quality management, evaluation or indicators of performance. All of these kinds of things would have to be postponed because of this urgent need and expectation of the need for these operational things. I have to be honest and say this is really a dilemma for Frontex. It seems quite seldom that we are thinking about a period of two years and what is normal for a European agency when it is established and what can happen in two years. Normally the first two years is only for taking the curtain down and saying, "Here is the agency" and we have to start running immediately, but this is slightly different. On the other hand, I have to say that it has somehow developed the nature of my staff here which has a very strongly pioneer-oriented spirit. Everyone feels that it is our mission to do it in the current circumstances and also in the future when the expectations will be even higher.

  Q228  Chairman: Can I move to our second question which is probably implicitly answered by your organisational chart. Who do you report to? Can you explain a little more the relationship between you and the Management Board? Who takes the operational decisions? Who is responsible for giving you operational directions? Who decides on the Annual Work Programme?

  General Laitinen: The functions and the powers of the Management Board are clearly stipulated in Article 20 of the Regulation. Generally speaking, the Management Board takes the strategic decisions, which is adopting the Work Programme, the organisational structure of the agency and the budget. It is linked more to the time span of one year which belongs to the Management Board. When it comes to deciding on the particular operations, whether to launch them and how to finance them, the allocation of money to particular operations, that belongs to the Executive Director. It is clear that there is not a mixture in that. There is one individual case where the Management Board is entitled to intervene in the operational issues and that is of an advisory nature. It is entitled to advise on the issues directly related to the technical development of border control and so on. The share of responsibilities is very clear. The other part is the reporting chain. I report directly to the Management Board as an entity. Whenever there is a meeting, which is on average five times a year, I give a thorough report of all the activities, both orally but also in written form, as to what is the state of play, what are our plans and so on. It is a very important part knowing that the input of the Management Board on operational issues is somewhat limited which means I consider it appropriate to maintain very thorough reporting towards the Management Board.

  Chairman: Thank you very much. That is very clear.

  Q229  Baroness Henig: I would like to move on to assessment of performance, which is an interesting area and I am sure one that you are very involved in and concerned to undertake. I wondered how the performance of Frontex was measured, how often and by whom? I am very mindful of the fact that presumably you will have internal assessment of performance but also your Management Board will have expectations of performance and hold you to account against those. I imagine also that Member States might have ideas about performance. Are you all working to the same kind of performance assessment mechanisms? Could you shed some light on this whole area of performance assessment.

  General Laitinen: Thank you very much for that excellent question. It is very important. Evaluating an operational agency like Frontex is a very challenging task. There are difficulties in finding appropriate indicators on operational output to determine the level of performance. We are working very hard on that. We have an idea how to do it but we need to develop it. I am afraid that it is not only a one year project, it takes time to achieve the prototype at least and to establish this kind of quality management system for the operationally tuned actors it is often possible only by applying the rule called trial and error. That is one side. We have an idea of how it could go, which is a compilation of a series of different indicators for which we need some reference. We need to have a certain history in order to evaluate the existing situation and also to predict the future. That is for the operational side. As far as the management and administration is concerned, it is somewhat easier to do. There are some standardised criteria for all European agencies and Community bodies, which are called the internal control standards, and we apply these control standards already which is one of the preconditions to achieving financial independence. This is already in place. For the evaluation of our administrative performance there are different bodies that take care of that. We do have an internal auditor within this agency who mainly provides me and my Deputy Executive Director with the findings of how the procedures are ongoing. We do have input from the European Court of Auditors, which has already paid one audit to Frontex and the next one is anticipated to take place very soon. We have a third auditing body, which is the Internal Audit Service of the European Commission, which has also visited Frontex. From my point of view there is sufficient coverage of different aspects of auditing and there are quite frequent visitors here. What is the good news is that the findings of the recent audits, both by the European Court of Auditors and the Internal Audit Service, were very positive. They concluded that the basic management in terms of human resources and finance is in place and that the system is sound, let us put it that way.

  Q230  Chairman: I think, given the reluctance of the Court of Auditors to sign off accounts, you deserve our congratulations.

  General Laitinen: This is now the state of the play. The operational side is more complicated and requires more perspective and more effort, but when it comes to the administrative side it is much easier to do and is further developed for the time being.

  Q231  Baroness Henig: Thank you very much. In a sense, I would like to turn the thing around now. Given that Frontex is a facilitator, and we keep hearing that, to some degree your success or failure in your performance is going to be tied to the performance of your individual Member States because of the way you operate. I wondered, therefore, whether there were some states that were very active members as against others that were not, and that would therefore affect things because you would obviously want to operate with those that were active because you would have more chance of success, although the need might not be in that area. My second supplementary to that would be do Member States divide up into consumers of your services and providers of your services? Is that a pattern that you can see as well?

  General Laitinen: This is a very fundamental question, for a co-ordinator to have something to co-ordinate. First of all, I have to say that there is still a lot of room for increasing the activeness of Member States to participate in our operation by deploying technical means and experts for the joint operations that we have. That is one corner. The other fact is if we compare the situation of 2005 with 2006 and now with 2007 the trend is continuously increasing. For instance, in 2006 at sea borders the overall number of Member States which participated in joint operations was 15 compared with the existing figure in 2007 which is 22. This is an increasing trend. As for land borders, in 2006 we had eight Member States participating in different operations whereas the figure in 2007 is 23. Also, at the air borders in 2006 it was 18 compared with 2007 which is 26. This means that we can say that all the Member States participate in at least some of the operations but what is needed and what is my desire is to have more active participation of all Member States in the different operations. The trend is promising and what is needed is to have some patience to see how the Member States become more active in that. On the other hand, we have to take into consideration the fact that Member States are in charge of controlling their external borders and that is the priority for them and the European co-operation which is co-ordinated by Frontex is an additional element in that. They need to consider where to put their limited resources, whether on the domestic side or the European side. The trend is promising and it is increasing considerably. I am very satisfied with that but there is still a lot of room for improving their activeness.

  Q232  Chairman: Can I ask you a specifically British question on this point. We were shown in evidence we have already been given what was to me quite an impressive list of operations in which there has been British participation. Have you got any general comment you would like to give us on British operational participation?

  General Laitinen: I think we have a summary of the UK's participation. Generally speaking, I have to say that the UK has been active in participating in joint operations, no matter if the practical and administrative side is somewhat complicated and requires a case-by-case decision for each particular operation by the Management Board, which is carried out by a written procedure and it is customary. If you think about operations where the UK has participated in 2006 and 2007, the UK has participated in four pilot projects. Three of them were the Border Management Conferences aiming to promote third country co-operation where the UK has played a very important role. The fourth pilot project where we had UK participation was the Focal Point Office pilot project which is a system along the external borders where there are joint offices where experts from different Member States come together and assist their host country colleagues to perform their duties and act like a liaison officer in this regard. The UK has been active in creating this concept. They have participated in joint operations, Gordius, Herakles and Kras, both land borders but also airport and maritime operations. Those three that I mentioned are land border operations. As far as the sea border sector is concerned, there are six joint operations where the UK has participated and I can say that in all the main operations in the Canary Islands, in Malta and in the eastern Mediterranean the UK has participated either by deploying technical assets or experts to the joint operations. When it comes to air border operations, altogether there are four air border operations where we have seen UK participation. This brings me to the conclusion that we do have active participation from the UK, no matter if the procedure is relatively heavy to apply. This indicates the activeness of our British colleagues in this. There are also some activities on the return operations side, the best practices compilation and the training for the return officers in this regard where the UK has been very, very active.

  Q233  Lord Young of Norwood Green: What is the framework for the review of Frontex which is to be carried out by the Commission? I noticed there was a reference to this in the Management Board Programme of Work where it says: "As mentioned in the Hague Programme, the Commission will carry out an evaluation of Frontex tasks. As a result of this evaluation, new tasks will be assigned to Frontex". Perhaps you can capture that in your answer.

  General Laitinen: Yes, certainly. I think that the Commission would be the more appropriate body to respond to that.

  Q234  Chairman: I should tell you that they have already.

  General Laitinen: Okay. That is good. From my point of view and from Frontex's point of view it is like stocktaking where we are now: have we met the expectations which were in place when the Regulation was adopted; have we carried out right and appropriate duties; is the role of Frontex as a co-ordinator a sufficient one or would there be deeper involvement of this entire integrated border management in that sense; or perhaps find some new areas of co-operation which could be addressed to Frontex. This kind of more politically oriented assessment is now in question. This is somewhat different from the assessment which is based on Article 33 of the Regulation which is the Management Board driven assessment for the overall internal functioning of the agency which belongs to the Management Board. These two assessments, in addition to the third assessment which is for the top managers of this agency based on the staff regulations, are ongoing in the same way. Coming back to the Hague Programme based evaluation, that is more about paving the way for the future on integrated border management and what would be the role of Frontex within this framework.

  Q235  Lord Young of Norwood Green: I think you probably touched on this in your presentation but, nevertheless, are you satisfied with the involvement of EU institutions in setting the budget of Frontex? Is it right that some of the budget should be made conditional on future developments which are not within your control?

  General Laitinen: Generally speaking, I have been very satisfied with the budget authority and the Commission's involvement in the financial management of this agency. What is somewhat exceptional is the rate of growth of this agency. This is a unique situation where a European agency has been developed so rapidly and with such a drastic increase from the first year of its existence. On the other hand, I found it was a clear signal from the Council and the Parliament to address and indicate the importance of Frontex by allocating more money to this agency than was proposed. Normally the trend is just the opposite, to cut off some expenditure. I found it a very positive signal. Now that the budget side is in place it requires adequate human resources. The third point, coming back to the most critical factor, which is the Member States, has to be in balance. That is the main challenge for us in order to digest the increased financial resources of Frontex. Another thing I have to say is that focusing only on the operational expenditure is not enough for a co-ordinator. This is simply due to the fact that our success relies very much on the added-value that we are able to prove. If the human resources and the administrative side are not in balance with the soaring resources and financial resources for the operational element the results can be counterproductive. It could even reduce the level of the quality of our products. There could be more pressure and more tasks to do with less human resources to be allocated to that.

  Chairman: I think that leads immediately to a factual question from Lord Listowel. I beg your pardon, I interrupted you.

  Q236  Lord Young of Norwood Green: This is really a supplementary briefly, if I may. I am a bit puzzled that they do not understand the importance of the point that you make. The success of the operation depends on your risk analysis model and your R&D as well needs to feed into that, so I am puzzled they cannot see the importance of that connection. The only other point I would make is that when I looked through your budgetary allocation it did seem that the staffing you have allowed for training seems small in comparison to the size of the task, but it may be that is a question you are building on.

  General Laitinen: Thank you very much. Another issue which I think is worth mentioning here is that the Management Board established an objective which would be the optimal division line between the administrative and operational expenditure and this rate is 33/65. In other words, one-third for administration and two-thirds for operations, knowing that the operational work my staff is doing here is part of the administrative budget. In 2008, as was discussed previously, our operational budget is due to be increased by 140%. For that purpose I have made a proposal to increase the administrative budget and also the human resources staff number of this agency by 19% which leads to the final figure of 25/75 which is much more at the optimal level established by the Management Board. This is a very important point in this regard. As far as the training staff are concerned, the Training Unit applies a somewhat different modus operandi when performing their duties. They have gathered an expert pool that they use for shorter term projects which means that the co-ordinating role is within the Training Unit and where the actual planning and implementing work is carried out by these qualified training assistant officers, if I can use that phrase. Very often these guest officers come from the partnership academies, so they are the teachers at these national academies, who come together, draft a project and implement that project. In that time they serve the agency for a shorter period of time which reduces the permanent staff figure to that relatively low figure. I do agree that if we compare 89 staff members to the existing 125 it is not that much bearing in mind the importance of the capacity building factor and the training being a part of that.

  Q237  Chairman: I think it is my fault for interrupting. I am not sure we have given you a chance yet to answer the second part of Lord Young's question, which was is it right that some of the budget should be made conditional on future developments which are not within your control? I will just make a comment. As a former accounting officer of the British Diplomatic Service I am well used to situations where a lot of things happen that are not under your control. Perhaps you would like to comment.

  General Laitinen: Thank you very much. We have now experienced enough to have a budget reserve and conditional budgets. It might sound attractive but we have to keep in mind the heavy procedure which is very much out of the hands of the actor itself, it is for the budget authority under the duration of this procedure, but it does not provide us with sufficient flexibility to adapt our operational activities for that. This means that I would prefer to have certainty in relation to the budget and, if needs be, an additional element for that instead of starting planning for the operations which are the subject of the reserve. I consider budget reserve as an undesirable exception. If the only option is to earmark this money and put it into reserve then that is the case but it is not the best possible solution for to continuity and consistent management and planning taking into account all of these procedures that have to be put in place.

  Q238  Earl of Listowel: Do you consider that Frontex staffing and funding are adequate to enable it to carry out its present tasks? Will they be for the future? We have already dwelt on those questions to some degree but, please, if you have further comments we would be grateful for them. Also, just a point of detail and perhaps you can write to the Committee on this if you have this information, have you information on the retention of staff and on their levels of sickness absence? I ask this because that can be an indication of the state of morale of staff. If Frontex is being asked to do too much in too short a time that might be a helpful indicator as to whether that is the case or not.

  General Laitinen: Thank you very much for that question. During the two years of the agency's existence we have been at the edge all the time when it comes to human resources and the operational and other types of expectations. There are some challenges that we have had and we will have in the future in recruiting staff. One is of an administrative nature and others are related to the seat and the Community salary system that we apply. Generally speaking, we have been in a permanent emergency situation for two years and if we did not have this pioneer spirit from the entire staff and very high morale in relation to work, very strong commitment to the work, this would not be the case. I can say openly and loud that this would not be the case. I do have some strong concerns in relation to 2008, but in the situation where the operational budget is due to be increased by 140% we have a plan with the budget authority to put 30% of the previous budget's administrative expenditure into reserve which means that we are not able to commit the salaries for the entire year for the whole staff and that is not a good message for the staff that a European agency is not able to guarantee the salary payments for the entire fiscal year. That is one issue in relation to that. We need to work hard to meet all the conditions to release the budget reserve but in addition, in this new situation which is anticipated, we need a 19% increase in our staff, and that is the minimum, and adequate new allocations for the administrative budget which would take the staff up to 189 by the end of 2008. I would like to mention another factor which is related to recruitment and also in relation to the existing staff, and that is what is called the correction coefficient which means different places within the European Union are rated at different levels when it comes to salary levels. Here in Warsaw it is one of the lowest figures in Europe, it is 77.6% of the salary level from the level of 100 which is applied in Brussels and Luxembourg. These ratings change annually, so they can go up and down one year after another. Last year was the first time in my career, and I think it was the first time in my colleagues' careers, when our net incomes decreased because of the change in the correction coefficient at the same time as when in absolute terms the cost of living standard in Warsaw and Poland increased by a certain per cent. This is a de-motivating and discouraging factor for recruitment. The difference is so drastic, 100 compared to 77.6. We have had a lot of cases in our recruitment where even at the stage of short-listed candidates, when they learn and understand what the correction coefficient means they have withdrawn their applications. It is a matter of almost one-quarter of the income that they have calculated.

  Q239  Chairman: Who sets the coefficient?

  General Laitinen: It is the Community. The final decision is that of the Council. It is based mainly on the statistics by the National Statistic Services and Eurostat.

  Earl of Listowel: My Lord Chairman, is there time for one very quick question?

  Chairman: Extremely quick. We are half way through and we are by no means half way through the questions, so we have got to get a move on.


 
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