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2 Feb 2009 : Column 468
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, there is no question but that for too long strokes have been the poor relation in the NHS, so I shall not pretend that everything is satisfactory. The noble Baroness is completely right about rehabilitation. Our strategy sets out the care and support that is needed following a stroke, but we are not pretending that this does not present a major challenge for the whole of the NHS and social care services. We know that it can be achieved because it is happening in some areas of excellence where world-class services are provided. We need both to become the norm.
Alcohol: Pregnant Women
Question
3.06 pm
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what initiatives they have recently introduced to make the public aware of recommended drinking levels during pregnancy.
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, in May 2008, we began a national campaign to improve the public’s knowledge of units of alcohol and the link between alcohol consumption and health. As my noble friend will know, this includes highlighting advice about alcohol consumption when pregnant. Our voluntary agreement with the industry asks it to put a short version of an alcohol-in-pregnancy message on its labels, as agreed by the four Chief Medical Officers of the United Kingdom.
Lord Mitchell: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Last May, in the Committee stage of the Alcohol Labelling Bill, the noble Baroness said words to the effect that, if by the end of 2008 voluntary labelling had not occurred, action would be taken to make it mandatory. I have been looking at labels in supermarkets, but almost in vain, as the only thing that I have seen is a small symbol that would require a magnifying glass to understand. It seems that the drinks industry has pulled the wool over the Government’s eyes, but I hope that my noble friend can assure me to the contrary.
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, my noble friend knows that I share his concern about this issue. We know that, so far, health and unit information labelling on alcoholic drinks has been used only to a limited extent. As he said, the labels carry a wide variety of elements of the agreement, which include how the advice is portrayed and whether there is advice on pregnancy. We are committed to improving information on labels, whether through a voluntary agreement or a legal requirement. We have been working with the industry to improve compliance and I think that we have given it every chance to get this right. We hope to see an improved rate of compliance in the second stage of our monitoring, as it certainly was not right during the first stage, and we expect to report on that
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Baroness Tonge: My Lords, does the Minister agree that, with all the press reports and media programmes telling us about research showing this and that, it must be a bit of a nightmare to be pregnant nowadays?
Baroness Tonge: Well, it certainly would be for me, my Lords. I even found something among the Library papers here showing that, if you feed alcohol to rats, their offspring are born loving the smell of alcohol. It makes me wonder what happened to my family. The confusion out there is a very serious matter for young women. When will the Department of Health send out a clear and simple message that it should be moderation in all things, especially when pregnant?
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, I certainly agree with the noble Baroness on the idea of being pregnant at this stage in our lives. The Government’s advice is quite clear: pregnant women or women trying to conceive should avoid drinking alcohol. To minimise the risk to their babies if they choose to drink, they should not drink more than one or two units of alcohol once or twice a week and should not get drunk. Pregnant women are given that advice by doctors, nurses, the Chief Medical Officers and NICE.
Baroness Deech: My Lords, does the Minister agree that women are very likely to get confused by the different messages and that those who most need to hear the messages are least likely to receive them? Other things concerning the physical and mental health of our children are far more serious, as is pointed out in the report published today, A Good Childhood, which encompasses the whole problem. The serious problems of poverty and family breakdown in this country will do more harm to the next generation than will be dealt with by any amount of warnings in small print on labels.
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, the noble Baroness points to a wider societal issue and, of course, makes a very good point. However, that does not mean that, because we cannot immediately solve that problem, we should not, for example, promote the Know Your Limits campaign, which is about challenging public tolerance of drunkenness and harmful drinking, raising public awareness of units and ensuring that everyone has the information that they need to estimate how much they should drink.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, the Minister referred to the NICE advice that women should not drink at all during the first three months of their pregnancy, but is that not spoilt by its going on to say that, if you must drink, confine it to one or two drinks? Is that not part
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Baroness Thornton: My Lords, my doctor’s surgery certainly has large posters about drinking in pregnancy. That advice is realistic: if you are trying to conceive, you should avoid drink; if you are pregnant, you should avoid drink; but if you wish to have a drink, you should have a very modest amount indeed.
Arrangement of Business
Announcement
3.13 pm
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am sure that it will not have escaped anyone’s notice that we are experiencing very heavy wintry conditions today. I am sure that the whole House will want to place on record its support for and congratulations to all our staff who have made it in to make our Sitting possible.
Baroness Seccombe: And noble Lords.
Lord Bassam of Brighton: Too true, my Lords. To allow staff of the House to get home safely and at a reasonable hour tonight, the House will not sit beyond nine o’clock. My noble friend Lord Mandelson is about to make a Statement on the industrial action at Lindsey oil refinery. To accommodate that and to make necessary progress on the Banking Bill, we have postponed tonight’s Question for Short Debate in the name of the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland. I am grateful to the noble Viscount for his understanding in these trying circumstances and for agreeing to withdraw his Question.
I understand that the Refreshment Department is encountering severe staff shortages. As a result, there will be no House dinner this evening. The only services available will be drinks served in the Peers’ Guest Room and the Bishops’ Bar, which will also serve soup and sandwiches. I understand that House staff will be notified about arrangements separately.
Lord Elton: My Lords, if the present weather continues, will the House authorities see that the car parks are cleared for use, because at the moment more Members are arriving on wheels than can comfortably be accommodated?
Lord Bassam of Brighton: My Lords, I am not sure that that necessarily falls to the Chief Whip, but I shall pass on those views.
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Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee
Membership Motion
3.14 pm
Moved By The Chairman of Committees (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
Visiting Forces and International Headquarters (Application of Law) (Amendment) Order 2009
Motion to Approve
Moved By Lord Bassam of Brighton
Relevant document: 30th Report, Session 2007—08, from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, Considered in Grand Committee on 27 January.
International Headquarters and Defence Organisations (Designation and Privileges) (Amendment) Order 2009
Motion to Approve
Moved By Lord Bassam of Brighton
Relevant Document: 30th Report, Session 2007—08, from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, Considered in Grand Committee on 27 January.
European Union Military Staff (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2009
Motion to Approve
Moved By Lord Bassam of Brighton
Relevant document: 30th Report, Session 2007—08, from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, Considered in Grand Committee on 27 January.
2 Feb 2009 : Column 472
Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007 (Disclosure of Pupil Information) (England) Regulations 2009
Motion to Approve
Moved By Lord Bassam of Brighton
Relevant document: 2nd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, Considered in Grand Committee on 27 January.
European Communities (Definition of Treaties) (Agreements concluded under Article XXI GATS) Order 2009
Motion to Approve
Moved By Lord Bassam of Brighton
Relevant document: 2nd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, Considered in Grand Committee on 27 January.
Industrial Action: Lindsey Oil Refinery
Statement
3.16 pm
The Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (Lord Mandelson):My Lords, with permission I would like to make a Statement about the current industrial action at the Lindsey oil refinery and elsewhere in the country.
On Thursday and Friday last week, contract workers at the Lindsey refinery in North Lincolnshire and elsewhere took part in unofficial industrial action. This has been followed today with further such action at Sellafield power station and other sites around the UK.
The stated reason for such action is said to be because a contract awarded at the Lindsey site to an Italian contractor, IREM, has resulted in discrimination against British workers through the exclusive employment of Italian and Portuguese workers. On the Lindsey site, the great majority of the workers are actually British, so clearly no policy of discrimination or exclusion of British nationals is being operated at the refinery. All the striking workers, I understand, are from maintenance or enhancement projects on the sites, and as of this afternoon there is no disruption of production at any of the sites where this unofficial industrial action is taking place.
On Friday, my department asked ACAS, the independent arbitration service, to meet the employers and the unions to examine the various accusations
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We are determined to see robust enforcement of the employment rights legislated for by this Parliament, and fair and proper application of the European rules which govern the operation of companies throughout the EU and the mobility of labour, which has always been an intrinsic part of membership of the EU and supported by successive British Governments.
In a statement issued yesterday, the energy company Total, which runs the Lindsey site, stated:
“It has never been, and never will be, the policy of Total to discriminate against British companies or British workers”.
It went on to say that it sub-contracts on a fair and non-discriminatory basis and that the wage rates are the same as for equivalent jobs on the site.
Two key accusations have been made in recent days. The first is that the use of labour from overseas leads to an erosion of wages and conditions for all concerned because these workers are paid less than UK workers. The second is that there is discrimination in recruitment practice against British workers.
The statement issued by Total last night confirmed that workers from overseas are paid at the same rate as other workers on the site. And it further confirmed that it does not operate any policy of discrimination with regard to tendering or recruitment. The same rules apply here as they do with UK companies bidding for work overseas and I would remind the House that there are 300,000 UK companies operating elsewhere in Europe.
UK or overseas-based companies can bid for sub-contracts. Of course, if an overseas company wins a contract it can use its permanent employees to carry out the work, but Total has confirmed that where new vacancies are advertised, it will work with sub-contractors to ensure that UK workers are considered in the same way as anyone else.
The workers coming here from Italy and Portugal are protected by the EU posting of workers directive, which the UK has implemented fully. This guarantees these workers minimum standards, for example, on pay, health and safety. The directive facilitates the free movement of services within the European Union, a vital market for British companies. In the case of the Lindsey refinery, we have been informed that all sub-contractors adhere to the National Agreement for the Engineering Construction Industry which governs terms and conditions, working hours and pay.
Membership of the European Union, and taking advantage of the opportunities for trade presented by the EU, are firmly in the UK’s national interest. Free movement of labour and the ability to work across the EU has been a right and a condition of membership for decades. It is important that we respect and guarantee that principle, not least because it guarantees the right of hundreds of thousands of British workers and
2 Feb 2009 : Column 474
At a difficult economic time, we fully understand the anxieties people have about their jobs. That is why we have been taking the measures we have been to support people through these difficult times. We strongly believe in fair opportunities for everyone in this country and in ensuring that British people have access to advertised job vacancies. It would be quite wrong and indeed against the law for companies to advertise vacancies and exclude British people from them. Equally, it would run contrary to the principles of the single market and indeed harm British people working abroad for us to exclude foreign workers from employment in the UK.
We understand the concerns of workers at a time of economic difficulty and we have now established a mechanism through the ACAS process to examine those concerns. It is through this strong and independent process that we should proceed, not through the continuation of the unofficial industrial action which has been taking place. Our aim is to get through the economic difficulties we face with Britain continuing as a great trading nation, with our companies able to operate in Europe and worldwide, and our workers equipped for the jobs and industries of the future. I commend this Statement to the House.
3.23 pm
Lord Hunt of Wirral: My Lords, I welcome the fact that the Secretary of State is here with us again making another important Statement to this House. I declare my interests as set out in the register. I am also grateful to him for allowing me advance sight of his Statement and for his courtesy, although I have only just had the opportunity to see it. I agree with him that it is very important that two crucial canards have been exposed. First, it would be illegal to discriminate against British workers and we now have clear assurances from him that no such discrimination has taken place. Secondly, there is the allegation of undercutting, which, too, has been exposed as specious. In terms of intellectual substance, this should be the end of the matter, but these are straitened times and the issues are not that simple. The immediate problem has been created by what was by and large an extraordinarily ill-judged turn of phrase used by the Prime Minister in his first party conference speech as Labour leader in September 2007. As everyone in this country must know by now, he stated his intention to create,
It is no good dancing on the head of a pin at this stage. This was deliberate, carefully calibrated mood music and everyone knew at once what the intention behind it was.
My right honourable friend David Cameron, the Leader of the Opposition, pointed out six weeks later in the debate on the Queen’s Speech in the other place that this was patently, overtly and unmistakably a
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- “if only the Prime Minister could see how embarrassed his Labour MPs are, how they shudder when he utters those words. He borrowed one slogan off the National Front and he borrowed another off the British National Party”.—[Official Report, Commons, 6/11/07; col. 22.]
Where was his moral compass when he was doing that? All I would say is, “As ye sow, so shall ye reap”.
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