---

2.48 pm

Lord Haskel: My Lords, once again I congratulate my noble friend on introducing this debate. It is becoming a bit of a reunion for the 1993 intake, as the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, implied. My noble friend Lady Massey spoke of grandparents and my noble friend Lady McIntosh asked the Minister to say something about grannies. Will the Minister also say something about grandpas, because this grandpa regularly performs grandparenting duties to help young female family members at work?

My noble friend Lady McIntosh also spoke about women in management. Just in time for this debate, up pops a paper from the CERAM Business School in France. After studying the share price in 2008, the researchers show that, of all the companies that comprise the stock exchange index in France, the more women there were in the company management, the less the share price fell. Some may think that this confirms the view that men are wholly responsible for the global economic crisis. My view is that the study shows how this is more about diversity, about which the noble

12 Mar 2009 : Column 1321

Baroness, Lady Greengross, talked. We now know that diverse cultures running companies favour the exploitation of different business opportunities, more debate and more challenge.

Obviously, the best thing that a Government can do in this crisis is to make it as short and as shallow as possible, whoever is responsible, because that will help men and women alike. However, until things are turned around, my noble friend Lady Gould and others are right to say that women at work are particularly vulnerable. They are vulnerable to the inevitable cutbacks that are going to take place because they have more caring responsibilities and thus are more swiftly affected by reductions in flexible working. An easy way to cut costs is to give less generous maternity leave. We should not take maternity leave for granted; in the United States, it is still voluntary. There may be cuts in training, but surely the one thing that has helped women to catch up with men is equality in education and training. There is a tendency to make women rather than men redundant on the assumption that men are the breadwinners; that is still a very prevalent attitude in British business.

My point is simple: the role of women in achieving diversity helps business to make more balanced decisions. That is not conjecture. In July 2008, the Chartered Management Institute—I am grateful for its briefing—helped to carry out research for the Department for Work and Pensions that demonstrated this. However, I think that we will soon have an opportunity to do something about it. This global crisis has shown up the inadequacy of our standards of corporate governance in many other business sectors beyond banking and the public are rightly disillusioned. It has become a political as well as an economic matter. As the noble Lord, Lord Smith, and my noble friend Lord Giddens told us, the governance rules in Norway have increased female representation on the boards of major companies from 6 per cent to 44 per cent in six years. There has to be a wider review—a restructuring, as my noble friend put it—and, when it comes, I think that it must include an important debate about women and diversity. A precedent has been set. I would also say to the noble Lord, Lord Smith, who is not in his place, that a new governance code could anticipate an equality Bill where companies are obliged to demonstrate in their accounts that they do not discriminate in pay.

There is one area where the global economic downturn will particularly affect women: protectionism. Protectionism is attractive because it provides short-term gains and avoids the need to take difficult political decisions. In the longer term, however, we all know that it leads not only to economic loss but also to a more closed society. The early victims of this are women, not so much because they have rights taken away, but because progress towards equality slows down. With the freedom of open markets, it becomes more and more difficult for Governments to discriminate against women, for a legal system to insist that they are second-class citizens and for an education system to do the same. So if we want to help women, we should campaign against protectionism and not let the downturn make women its victims.

12 Mar 2009 : Column 1322

2.54 pm

Baroness Seccombe: My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Gould of Potternewton, for once again bringing to our attention the role of women today. She has done sterling work in this field and long may she continue to do so. Enormous strides have been made over the years, so today we see women holding high office in practically every field of activity. I think that they are all to be congratulated on their achievements and for being the role models for those who follow them.

I wish to concentrate on one particular aspect, as I am troubled by the plight of many young girls today. At the root of the problem I see the break-up of families. I think particularly of teenage schoolgirls, some as young as 12, going to school and taking their babies with them to the crèche. These sad young people often become chained to a life of benefits and further children by a succession of men, with little chance of escaping from the background and the life that entraps them.

I am saddened by what is happening in society today. Family life, much despised by the left, is practically non-existent in some communities, and I believe that its demise is responsible for much misery. There are those who will not accept that a child is much more likely to flourish in an atmosphere where a father is not just a frequent visitor but spends each night at home helping with the vital and difficult task of rearing his, as well as her, children. Divorce and the break-up of live-in relationships are widespread in many places. They have become an “attractive outside option” as working families’ tax credit enables mothers to boost their income through work. Stable families are being punished by this Government and encouraged to break the bonds of marriage to secure higher incomes than if they remained married. The effect on the children can be catastrophic as they enter a peripatetic existence before, sadly, in too many cases, contact with the absent parent ceases altogether. I believe that the effect of this separation on the mother can be particularly harsh as so often she becomes the sole carer of the children.

Rearing children is more challenging than ever before, but young people are the future prosperity of this country. However, when one sees the emerging statistics showing the failures of this Government’s policies, I fear for the future. This is happening on our watch as the country prepares young people for their maturity. It is their only chance, and we will have failed them miserably unless swift action is taken. Naturally, none of us desires or condones a woman or a man staying in a violent relationship, but it seems wrong to me that, where there are children, government policy favours people living apart.

In 1997, the incoming Labour Government put great store in education, so with all the injections of capital it is difficult to accept that last year, 12 years later, 128,000 young people did not get one GCSE at grade C, and 28,000 did not get a single GCSE at grade G. This is in addition to all the teenagers who did not even try as they had opted out. Chaos in some classrooms reigns as one in five boys between the ages of 13 and 14 is suspended from school, and

12 Mar 2009 : Column 1323

200,000 secondary school pupils play truant at least once a week. Teachers have an unenviable but vital responsibility in trying to teach those who want to learn. It must be enormously difficult to maintain order and the right atmosphere when disruptive pupils are out of control. So I suppose it is not surprising that in the international tables the UK has fallen from seventh to 17th in literacy and eighth to 24th in maths. It may be difficult to believe, but nearly 100,000 young people aged between 10 and 17 receive custodial sentences each year. Perhaps one of the most frightening statistics is that nearly one-third of all teachers have been punched, kicked or bitten by pupils, which is very different from my schooldays.

I am sure that some of your Lordships will feel that I am out of touch, but if we shut our eyes to what is happening in many of our schools, I fear for the future of not only young people but also our country. We all need boundaries, and keeping within them should be a principle that lasts a lifetime. Young people today will have to be the role models of their successor generation. Unless we get to grips with these significant problems, we will have a generation failed by the Labour policies of today.

In conclusion, the world has seen significant changes since those days of the first international women’s day in 1911. It is a far cry from women marching and demonstrating in quest of a vote. I understand that on that particular day meetings were held countrywide, with, most unusually, husbands staying at home with the children. Thirty thousand women marched on the longest and largest demonstration of the day, so the women’s voice was heard loud and clear. We should not forget the courageous campaign waged by Mrs Emmeline Pankhurst. But, even so, it was 17 years before a few women got the vote and another 10 years before all women were enfranchised. Look at where women have got since those fiery days. I applaud them all, and I hope and pray that the little ones of today will be just as successful in the decades ahead.

3.01 pm

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch: My Lords, I, too, thank my noble friend Lady Gould for initiating this debate, which has become an increasingly important calendar event in the work of this House. That is in no small part due to her intrepid work in pursuing women’s issues over many years. Like others, I was a bit bemused by the title of this debate, which I was tempted to turn on its head and call attention to the role of men in the global economic crisis. The easy answer would be to say that men are guilty on all counts. I shall address that issue and, in so doing, will echo some comments that have already been made.

When I left university, one of my first jobs was to work as an organiser for a banking union in the City of London. Even then, it felt like an alien world with different values and manners, and a different culture. I have worked in male-dominated sectors all my life but the City is the only place where I was confronted by a group of workers who absolutely refused to be represented by a woman. To its eternal shame my union, instead of standing its ground, went off and found them a male

12 Mar 2009 : Column 1324

representative instead. Therefore, as noble Lords might imagine, I have a healthy distain for male City workers and find it unsurprising that their behaviour over the years has led to the disintegration of a swathe of iconic institutions.

In that context, I should like to draw some lessons for future global economic reform. First, as has been said, boards composed of identikit white men do not make the best decisions. Healthy decision-making needs diversity, which is not a new discovery. Going back to the early 1990s, the Cadbury report and others recognised that boards appointing new members in their own image become self-confirming. Since then corporate governance rules have been tightened but have failed to tackle this intrinsic problem. As has been said, this is overwhelmingly a male problem, with only 110 female non-executives, or 14 per cent of the total, sitting on FTSE 100 boards.

Secondly, we know from organisational studies that the most effective boards are not only gender diverse but also balanced by a range of attributes, such as strategic thinking, innovation, financial training and emotional intelligence. Unfortunately, the most recent City practice has concentrated on rewarding and promoting its successful male risk-takers to the board. That has skewed board decision-making in favour of short-term gain and away from long-term strategic planning.

Thirdly, those appointments have corrupted the pay and rewards systems, which have lost touch with the long-term viability of the organisation. I do not intend echoing what has already been said in miles of column inches on the amorality of the bonus culture, except to concur that future rewards should be proportionate, transparent and clearly linked to long-term performance.

Fourthly, it is self evident that, with the competitive hype of the male traders, who are living on adrenalin and testosterone, they are not wired up to make the best rational decisions on behalf of their clients or employers. Rather belatedly, what we always suspected has come to light. A study has shown that the traders who made the highest profits also had the highest levels of testosterone in their saliva, thus fuelling an addiction to high-level risk. When the market is booming this makes them high achievers. However, when the market crashes they overproduce cortisol, which has the effect of them shunning risk altogether. So for years our country's financial security has been at the mercy of the physiology of these hormone junkies.

Recently, a rather nice quote from a female Icelandic banker in the Observer described how young, inexperienced men had become too dominant during the boom. She said:

“Suddenly there were a lot of young men about 35 or 30. They used to call to try to sell me derivatives which were really complicated. They thought they were really clever, but they were still living at home with their parents”.

I think we can all identify with the image that conjures up.

We now find ourselves living with the consequences of an economic crisis predominantly engineered by men. Particular concern has been expressed that in this recession women will be the biggest losers in the

12 Mar 2009 : Column 1325

job market, but I refuse to be too pessimistic about that. In my experience, women have been more flexible and adaptable to change and have shown a greater capacity to reskill and retrain than their male colleagues. In addition, women have shown themselves to be adept at running small businesses and arguably, if lending can be restimulated, this will be one of the main routes out of the recession. As we have heard, the proof of women's capacity to manage money and to act as small-scale entrepreneurs at a global level is already confirmed by the success of the micro-financing initiative, which is providing thousands of families with a route out of poverty.

Since women demonstrably have the skills and aptitude to make sound financial decisions, what should we do to capitalise on this underutilised asset? The current crisis creates the opportunity for some radical rethinking about the values and ethos of the banking system. It is not enough to pour in more money and shuffle some board seats around. A recent survey showed that the majority of people despise their bank. That is strong stuff, but it is not surprising since the big four banks have effectively operated as a cartel for years. Therefore, any rescue package should include obligations to deliver new, high-level, consumer service standards, which women should be encouraged to design. Incidentally, I am told that a customer survey by one of the banks concluded that their ideal bank manager was a woman, aged 40 and slightly overweight. I am not sure how far I should pursue this finding, but it should be reassuring to any younger women seeking careers in the banking sector.

It is no longer enough to hear warm words on diversity or to have a token woman on the board. The Government should now be in a position to insist that the institutions they finance adopt positive action targets to achieve diverse boards within a clear timescale. We should now take steps to challenge the culture of employment throughout the City. In the same way that balanced boards make better decisions, it should follow that more diverse trading teams will get less carried away with hormone-fuelled risk-taking. That requires leadership from the top to break with the previous practices and ethos.

I am conscious that I have been able only to skim the surface of some very complex issues surrounding the global economic challenge. I will merely conclude by emphasising that the so-called masters of the universe have had their day. Our future success means harnessing all the talents and skills at our disposal, which means putting women at the heart of our future financial institutions.

3.10 pm

Baroness Rawlings: My Lords, I, too, thank the noble Baroness, Lady Gould of Potternewton, for securing the debate. It has produced many speakers from all sides of the House and, as my noble friend Lord Henley said, has included speeches from several noble Lords too. This is certainly a most appropriate way to mark International Women’s Day which took place last weekend. It is yet another example of your Lordships’ House at its best.

12 Mar 2009 : Column 1326

The website for International Women’s Day calls on us to celebrate,

“the economic, political and social achievements of women past, present and future”.

Many noble Lords have highlighted the serious and troubling challenges facing women. They have rightly mentioned, too, the need to celebrate the achievements that women have made in the past and to find the best way to secure further progress for the future. As my noble friend Lady Hogg said in her eloquent speech, it is important to explore the ways in which the global economic crisis affects different groups of people so that the most effective help can be provided.

In this debate we are concentrating on the role of women and I should like briefly to call attention to women in developing countries and one of the important challenges that we face today, a challenge which seriously involves women. I heard recently Sir David Attenborough raise the thorny topic of over population, which he feels is the root of so many of our problems today, be it climate change, starvation or crime in overcrowded cities. Sir David said:

“There are three times as many people on this earth as when I started making natural history programmes 50 years ago”.

He offered a noble solution: better education of women worldwide; a simple yet gigantic task. I hope the Minister will agree that this would be a decent start in realising our obligations to fulfil the millennium development goals.

Perhaps at this stage I may challenge the noble Baroness, Lady Afshar, on a point she made in her impassioned speech that no women are involved in foreign affairs decisions in the world today; I paraphrase. I think the new US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, might well object to her line of argument.

Last year, at the International Women’s Day panel organised by Gender and Development Network, the Secretary of State for International Development, Douglas Alexander, announced additional investment to Afghanistan’s microfinance scheme. How right my noble friend Lady Miller of Hendon was in applauding this highly successful method of financing. Mr Alexander claimed that by the end of 2009 the scheme would benefit some 400,000 women. Can the Lord President update the House on the progress of this help given the current global economic crisis?

This month the Government released a booklet entitled Real Help Now for Women. It is a direct response to the economic crisis and contains much pertinent and useful information on, for example, jobs, benefits, skills, training and help looking after younger children. I hope the booklet will provide much needed help not only to women in the world but women in this country too.

Page 26 of the booklet deals with skills and training and claims that,

“new skills can help you get on in life”.

What action, if any, has been taken with regard to improving education and access to skills training, especially for women in developing countries, as they, too, are living through this difficult economic crisis? I look forward to the Lord President’s response.

12 Mar 2009 : Column 1327

3.14 pm

Baroness Pitkeathley: My Lords, one of my noble friends said to me earlier today that, in a debate such as this, it is a great privilege to speak last before the winders because you can finish with a flourish. Perhaps; but the real problem is finding something—anything—to say that has not already been said effectively by other noble Lords. However, I make no apology for repeating my thanks to my noble friend Lady Gould, not only for this debate but for her indefatigable work on behalf of women throughout her working life.

Many of today’s themes have been dear to my heart as a single mother and breadwinner for my family, as a granny and as a social worker. I always try on these occasions—I think we have now had six of them—to highlight the needs of women as carers. I shall come to that but first I want to draw attention to the huge contribution that women in this country and around the world make to public service. I refer to their commitment as trustees on the boards of charities and on non-departmental public bodies. Indeed, many in your Lordships’ House find, as I did, that being a full-time chief executive of an organisation does not sit too comfortably with being a committed Member of this House. So what do we do? We change our working patterns to become members or chairs of other bodies in public service in posts which are part-time, non-executive and enable us to have what is known as a portfolio career. In addition to those who earn a living in this way, countless thousands contribute as volunteer trustees.

My concern is that there is now going to be more competition for these posts and activities and that many more men will be appointed to them, cutting women out, perhaps, or at least reducing the proportion of women who take on these jobs. As more men are forced out of jobs or where promotion opportunities become less plentiful, more will perhaps want to go portfolio. Far be it from me to suggest that where equality of opportunity exists women would not be able to compete for and win such posts, but, sadly, it does not work like that. I have now chaired seven different non-departmental public bodies and in several cases have been involved in setting them up from scratch, appointing councils, boards and so on. I am afraid that it is more difficult to attract applications from women than from men; that women often lack confidence in interviews; and that, as a consequence, it is frequently difficult to achieve an equal gender balance on such committees. The charitable sector and the public sector are both notorious for having many more women in the workforce at the front line but when it comes to senior executive, board and, even more so, chairing positions, men predominate. It is essential that we do not let the greater number of males who will no doubt be in the market for this type of service deflect us from our commitments to gender balance on boards and councils, and from recognising the contribution that women make.

We have heard many times today that if there had been more women on boards or in other positions of authority in our banking system, a good deal more common sense and sense of proportion might have

12 Mar 2009 : Column 1328

prevailed. But perhaps many of these would-be non-executives in that sector had a similar experience to my own. When seeing a head hunter about the possibility of non-executive positions on various private sector boards, I was firmly told that as I had worked all my life in public service or third sector organisations, I had no experience of any value to bring to such a position. We all know that is right, don’t we? After all, I have run only organisations where budgets ran into billions, which employed thousands of people, which had very high public profiles and whose aims and outcomes were both controversial and significant for millions of people. Of course I, and dozens of women like me, have absolutely no experience that could be relevant or valuable to the private sector.

---