24 Mar 2009 : Column 547
House of Lords
Tuesday, 24 March 2009.
2.30 pm
Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Chester.
Waste Management: Refuse Collection
Question
2.36 pm
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they will take regarding the reduced frequency of domestic refuse collections and the resultant increase in rat and mouse populations.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change & Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath): My Lords, any waste collection scheme, including alternate weekly collection, should be designed to minimise the risk of attracting vermin. Independent research published by my department has shown that, as with all types of household waste collection, simple, common-sense measures such as keeping waste tightly wrapped and bin lids closed should prevent any rodent problems.
Lord Trefgarne: My Lords, I am greatly obliged to the Minister for that reply, as always. In addition to the homespun advice in the second part of his Answer, which I am sure is very much appreciated by all householders, can he say what we now do about the increase in numbers of rats and mice, which is a significant problem?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am glad that the homespun advice of my department found such favour with the noble Lord. One has to understand that the rodent population tends to go up and down. The latest report shows an increase, but this is mainly due to the exceptionally mild winter of 2007-08 and good breeding conditions in the following early summer. Of course, local authorities are responsible for ensuring that appropriate measures are taken. Many of them provide services for the destruction of such vermin, and we shall make sure that they continue to do their job effectively.
The Countess of Mar: My Lords, is the Minister aware that rats can chew through stainless steel, which means that shutting the lid on a plastic bin and wrapping your stuff in plastic bags is not very effective? Does he agree that bin collections were introduced as a public health measure? Rats and mice spread disease and, if we get too many, a lot of contagious diseases will be spread. Is the Minister’s department aware of this—Defra is often unaware of things such as disease—and what is it doing to prevent disease from spreading to members of the public?
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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am not sure that I accept what the noble Countess says about Defra’s awareness of disease; it is only too well aware of some of the major problems caused. Of course she is right about the impact of rats and mice spreading diseases, but that is why having effective rubbish collections and giving effective advice to householders is the way to tackle this effectively.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach: My Lords, the Minister prayed in aid climate change, but was he able to help on the Climate Change Act, which provided the Government with powers to give five local authorities the possibility of developing refuse collection schemes as exemplars? What has happened? What authorities are involved and what lessons have the Government learnt?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am not sure that I gave a climate change Answer to the Question. Whatever the impact of climate change, which is certainly happening, there will also be variations in winter temperatures. If you have an exceptionally mild winter, it is likely that the rat and mice population will grow. The noble Lord is absolutely right to refer to the ability to develop pilots. We have invited local authorities to put their names forward. None has yet done so.
Lord Burnett: My Lords, local authorities have a duty to give and receive the best value for council tax payers’ money and there is growing capacity in the economy. What advice and encouragement are the Government giving to local authorities to renegotiate and improve services such as refuse collection, which they contract for on behalf of local taxpayers, and what are councils doing to improve competition by encouraging smaller, local businesses to tender for this work?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, that is very much a matter for local authorities; it is not for the Government to dictate what they should do in this area. I am surprised that that suggestion has come from the Liberal Democrat Front Bench given the number of amendments on local government that noble Lords from that Bench have tabled to the everlasting marine Bill over the past few months. Of course, the point is well taken that local authorities should seek value for money in their contractual relationships with the private sector. Certainly, as regards sustainability, local suppliers may be one option that they wish to use.
Lord Pilkington of Oxenford: My Lords, has the Minister allowed for the ingenuity of the rodent population? When I suffered an infestation, the rats were looking through my drawing room window to see either me or the television, and it took weeks to get rid of them.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am advised that the noble Lord might change the programme.
Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, now that regulation is back in vogue, why do we not regulate the thickness of black plastic waste bags, as thin bags leak and attract rats?
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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, there is regulation and there is regulation. I hesitate to say that we should regulate the size of black bin bags, but I understand what my noble friend is saying. Undoubtedly, very thin bags tend to break easily and can cause a major problem if they are left outside for a long period. That takes us back to the whole point of this Question, which is that it is up to individual local authorities to sort this out and to have effective strategies for rubbish collection.
Baroness Knight of Collingtree: My Lords, is the noble Lord—
Lord Lloyd of Berwick: My Lords—
Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, it is the turn of the Cross Benches.
Lord Lloyd of Berwick: My Lords, can the noble Lord give any advice on the increase in the number of moles, although that may be rather a long way from the Question?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I suggest that the noble and learned Lord employs an effective mole catcher.
Baroness Knight of Collingtree: My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there is a feeling of great unfairness about the fact that some people get their bins collected every week but others do not and have to wait for a collection every two weeks? Although he suggests that this is solely a matter for local government, will he please have a word with it not only about this unfairness but about the health dangers?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am not aware of any research that suggests that alternate weekly collections have had a damaging impact on health. I make the point that these are alternate weekly collections. The normal local authority process is to pick up recyclable waste one week and to pick up the remaining waste the other week, so it is not a fortnightly collection. When done well, it can enhance the environment: the amount of recyclable waste goes up while the amount of waste going to landfill goes down. Therefore, there are considerable advantages in local authorities doing the right job here.
Lord Vinson: My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the upset in household collections is due to the EU landfill tax? I am sure that he will not be surprised to learn before long that rats are decreasing rather than increasing in number as they leave the EU economy and the British economy in particular, as it sinks under the burden of excessive and unnecessary EU regulations.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the fact is that as a result of landfill tax and other measures we sent a quarter less waste to landfill in 2007 compared to 2001. Household recycling rates have quintupled in the past 10 years, up from 7 per cent in 1997-98 to 35 per cent in the last year of complete data, ending July 2007, which shows that the combination of policies developed by this Government has proved very effective indeed.
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Children: Young Mothers
Question
2.44 pm
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many children have been born to mothers under the age of 16 during the most recent five-year period for which figures are available; and how many of those children were adopted at, or shortly after, birth.
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, 2,940 children were born to mothers aged under 16 in England in 2007, which is the latest year for which data are available. That is 265, or 8 per cent, fewer births to under-16s than in 2003. In total, 15,283 children were born to mothers aged under 16 during this five-year period. No data are available on how many of those births resulted in the child being adopted.
Lord Northbourne: My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that, for a Government who claim that every child matters, it really would be right for statistics to be collected on what happens to these children, whose future can be very much at risk? However, my main question is whether she is aware of a scheme that exists in some states in the United States called open adoption, under which the birth mother has the possibility of participating in the selection of the adoptive parents. Sometimes there is also an agreement for a reasonable and sensible degree of continuing contact between the birth mother and the child. Is that not a system that would greatly reduce the trauma of giving up the child, and therefore one that would help the birth mother to return to school and normal life and to have a normal family in the normal way?
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, I think that the noble Lord has a point about the counting of children, and I undertake to take this up with my noble friend Lady Morgan, the relevant Minister. The noble Lord, with his vast experience of such matters, points to an interesting issue. It appears that in England there is no use of open adoption as it is practised in the United States. However, where a baby is relinquished for adoption, the birth mother may consent to the child being placed with specified prospective adopters or with any adopters chosen by the agency. Where it is in the child’s best interests for there to be ongoing links, including contact with the birth parents, the birth parents will be involved in discussions about how best to achieve this and help with agreed plans—for example, through practical or financial support. The noble Lord will fully appreciate that the main consideration is what is in the best interests of the child.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, does the Minister agree about the importance of school nurses in relation to unwanted teenage pregnancies? In the Choosing Health White Paper, the Government set a target of 2010 for having a full-time school nurse for each cluster of primary schools and its related secondary. How are the Government getting on towards reaching that target? Are there enough nurses in the pipeline
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Baroness Thornton: My Lords, as usual, the noble Baroness makes a very good point. I am answering this Question on behalf of my noble friend the DCSF Minister, and I do not have those figures in my brief. In the Department of Health, we are focusing on that, and I undertake to write to the noble Baroness with those detailed answers.
Baroness Gould of Potternewton: My Lords, clearly, there has to be concern about the high level of teenage pregnancies, and we have to look for means by which we can reduce the level of those pregnancies. I appreciate that all the evidence shows that good-quality sex and relationship education in schools makes positive behavioural changes in young persons’ attitudes towards risky sex, and that the vast majority of parents support SRE being taught in schools. What progress has been made on the Government’s principled support for the introduction of PSHE, including SRE, as a statutory subject in the school curriculum?
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, my noble friend points to a very important matter. We know that the provision of sex and relationship education is patchy, which is why we recently announced our intention to make it statutory, to increase the priority that schools give to this important aspect of young people’s education and to ensure greater consistency across schools. Sex and relationship education is a key part of a child’s education, and we hope that it will give young people the knowledge and skills that they need to make safe and healthy choices and, importantly, to work in partnership with their parents—so that parents have the confidence to have the discussions with their children necessary to make sure that young people are making the choices that we would wish.
The Lord Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham: My Lords, does the Minister acknowledge the contribution made by community, voluntary and faith-based organisations that provide permanent and long-term placements for vulnerable children? What can be done to secure the financial future of some of these organisations in these very challenging days? I declare an interest as president of Family Care, Nottingham.
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is correct to point out the important work in children’s services undertaken by the third sector. I worked with Action for Children for many years. We recognise the invaluable services that the third sector provides, which are important in improving outcomes for some of our most vulnerable children. At a local level, we contract with these organisations, which do a significant amount of work in this sector. As far as I am aware, that will continue. At a national level, in 2007-08 we made £500,000 available to all voluntary adoption agencies, in recognition of their need to provide advice and to maintain and develop their services for difficult-to-place children.
Baroness Verma: My Lords, despite the Government’s spending £280 million on a strategy to reduce teenage pregnancies, why has their number increased, with the
24 Mar 2009 : Column 552
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, teenage pregnancy is the cause and consequence of social exclusion and health inequalities. It is a complex and challenging issue.
Baroness Thornton: My Lords, we are very disappointed that we have not met the target that we set ourselves. However, the British Government are about 20 years behind European Governments, because it seems that this issue was neglected in the1980s and 1990s.
Conservation: Farmland Birds
Question
2.52 pm
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what outcome they expect from the South West Farmland Birds Initiative which is being carried out in conjunction with Natural England, the Cotswolds Conservation Board, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds and other organisations.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change & Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath): My Lords, the South West Farmland Birds Initiative plans to create key habitats for six declining species of farmland birds using environmental stewardship and targeted advice. The partnership project aims to demonstrate how a similar model might be applied across England in other areas that support these species. The project expects to work with 1,500 farmers and over 40,000 hectares of farmland. This should deliver improved habitat for birds, leading to sustainable populations of the six target species.
Lord Rotherwick: My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. I declare as a farmer and a landowner that it is important that the decline in farmland birds be reversed. However, how can that decline be reversed when this initiative is delivering only on habitat and does not include the predation of farmland birds? An RSPB report said that there is growing evidence, and good evidence, that ground-laying birds such as the lapwing and the grey partridge are being limited by not only habitat but predation. How can this initiative deliver if it does not deal with the predation part of the problem?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his support of the initiative in general. Predation is clearly the main reason for egg and chick losses in many bird species, but many species can withstand high levels of predation. My understanding is that the RSPB work has shown, and this has been corroborated, that predator control is really effective
24 Mar 2009 : Column 553
Lord Tyler: My Lords, does the Minister acknowledge that the era of set-aside was unexpectedly successful in maintaining a wide variety of species of farmland birds? Is he satisfied that the move to single farm payments, taking into account the habitats directive and cross-compliance rules, will be equally successful? If not, why not, and what will the Government do about it?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the noble Lord is right. We think that set-aside had a positive impact and, with its removal, we have been looking at mitigating factors that might be brought into play. Sir Don Curry chaired the group, and we have consulted on two options in particular on the mitigation of set-aside. We will consider the way forward in the light of comments that we have received.
Lord Hamilton of Epsom: My Lords, the species that are subject to predation include sparrows and song birds. Can we ever expect the RSPB to recommend a controlled cull of sparrow-hawks, which are doing an awful lot of damage, or is that too much to hope for?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am happy to pass on the noble Lord’s comments to the RSPB. It is notable that in a report this morning the RSPB seems to have come to a refreshing view on the attributes of inland wind farms, so I have no doubt that it will pay careful attention to the noble Lord’s comments.
Lord Clark of Windermere: My Lords, has my noble friend seen the work of the Game Conservancy Trust, which shows that, by having proper land management with some predation control, one can increase the population of many woodland birds, as well as upland wading birds?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, that is a very helpful comment and I shall certainly ensure that my department is made fully aware of it. The whole point of this project is to give tailored advice to farmers through workshops and one-to-one advice. We are very keen to ensure that farmers do all that is necessary. My noble friend made a point about proper management, which can have a very positive impact on birds’ habitats and future survival.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach: My Lords, will this very worthwhile project draw on the experience and expertise of the Allerton project team, and is there a role for Defra’s so-called RADAR zone—the Rapid Analysis and Detection of Animal-related Risks information system?
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