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I certainly will withdraw the amendment on the basis that there is room for discussion between us, and I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, will be part of those discussions. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 17 withdrawn.

Schedule 1 agreed.

Clause 8 : Transfer of employees otherwise than under transfer scheme

Amendment 18

Moved by Lord Hunt of Wirral

18: Clause 8, page 5, line 2, at end insert—

“( ) A designation under this section may be given only after the Secretary of State has consulted—

(a) the companies within subsection (3); and

(b) the employees.”

Lord Hunt of Wirral: I have listened carefully to what the—

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: Before the noble Lord speaks, I listened to the questions that he posed, and he wished to hear the Minister’s response to them. I was particularly taken by the point made by my noble friend Lord Clarke concerning consultation and the fact that there should be an opportunity for consultation. I understand that the Minister has undertaken to write to all the parties involved on the specific issue that the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, raised. As we are in the mood for consulting and for endeavouring to reach agreement round the table, so to speak, it seems to me that we should wait to see what the response is and then, when we reach Report, see whether anything remains that needs to be resolved by way of a vote.

Lord Tunnicliffe: If it helps the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, I will respond on the point about consultation, specifically with respect to transfers. We are giving the assurance that TUPE, with its consultation provisions, will apply. I am not giving a general statement on the extent to which there will be wider consultations with employees when the restructuring takes place. That is obviously something that we will consider in the light of this debate and in the light of how the project develops. I hope that that allows the noble Lord to delay seeking to test the opinion of the Committee until we have a clearer view of the total consultation issues with respect to employees.

Lord Hunt of Wirral: I listened very carefully to what the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, said. However, the Minister has just replied and has pointed out that there is no way in which he can accept the amendment in my name and that of my noble friend, and therefore I want to test the opinion of the Committee.

9.41 pm

Division on Amendment 18

Contents 52; Not-Contents 57.

Amendment 18 disagreed.

24 Mar 2009 : Column 650

Division No. 3


Anelay of St Johns, B. [Teller]
Astor, V.
Attlee, E.
Bridgeman, V.
Browne of Belmont, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Cotter, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
De Mauley, L. [Teller]
Elton, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fookes, B.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Hamilton of Epsom, L.
Hamwee, B.
Henley, L.
Hooper, B.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kingsland, L.
Laird, L.
Lee of Trafford, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lyell, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Marland, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Norton of Louth, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rogan, L.
Rowe-Beddoe, L.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Steinberg, L.
Taylor of Holbeach, L.
Thomas of Winchester, B.
Tope, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Ullswater, V.
Wakeham, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.


Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L. [Teller]
Bew, L.
Bilston, L.
Borrie, L.
Bradley, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Corston, B.
Davidson of Glen Clova, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dubs, L.
Elystan-Morgan, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Golding, B.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Jay of Ewelme, L.
Jones, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Morris of Handsworth, L.
O'Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Patel of Bradford, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Quin, B.
Richard, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sewel, L.
Snape, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Thornton, B.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Vadera, B.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.
9.51 pm

Amendment 19 not moved.

Clause 8 agreed.

Clause 9 agreed.

House resumed.

House adjourned at 9.52 pm.

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