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However, I am also aware that there are differing views on this matter, for example those articulated by my noble friends Lord Harris of Haringey and Lady Henig. There are significant issues to consider. In particular, we need to ensure that any new arrangements for Met appointments will deliver improvements to both the strength and the diversity of leadership within the force. They will also need to ensure accountability and transparency so that the Commissioner could be held to account for the increased responsibility for appointments.
A key issue is where the line is clearest drawn between the oversight functions of the MPA and the leadership of the Commissioner, and whether this would include a change in the lead role for the strategic rank of assistant commissioner as well as the broader senior team. I welcome debate on this matter, but the MPA continuing to lead on assistant commissioners’ appointments would mean that the top three levels in the organisational structure were not appointed by the Commissioner, equivalent to the strategic appointments role taken by police authorities nationally.
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Lord Clinton-Davis: Would the Minister indicate what discussions have taken place between the Government and the Metropolitan Police Authority about this particular point?
Lord West of Spithead: As far as I am aware, there have been some discussions at official level, but nothing further. The previous Home Secretary felt that maybe some moves should be made in this area, but nothing formal had been agreed.
I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Imbert, for raising this matter, and while I am sympathetic to some of the principles underlying this amendment, I would wish to consider and consult on the matter further, before reaching a decision. On the basis, I would invite the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Imbert: I am grateful to noble Lords who have contributed to this discussion, and I thank in particular the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, and the Minister for their comments in welcoming me back from my all-too-frequent absences from your Lordships’ House. I shall pass on the Minister’s comments to my wife, no doubt with a bouquet of flowers, which will not go down to expenses, if you will forgive me for saying so. I respect the views of the noble Lord, Lord Harris; I may not agree with them, but I do respect them. In the light of the comments by the Minister about reflecting on this matter, I have at least put up a marker, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Harris of Richmond: Amendments 14, 15 and 16 leave out the words,
We have been over this ground, so I shall not detain the Committee overlong. Amendment 17, which concerns the appointment of chief constables and assistant chief constables, touches on what we have just been talking about. Again, it is the question of the Secretary of State overseeing the appointment of assistant commissioners of the Met police. However, we should be decentralising, as envisaged in the Green Paper, and not adding another layer to an already complex process.
I listened with great interest to what the noble Lord, Lord Harris, said about the position of the Mayor of London. I do not see that position written into this clause, yet the present incumbent of that post had a great deal to do with the removal of the previous commissioner and the appointment of the new one—and a very good choice it was. Is it intended that he, too, will have a hand in this? If so, where might that be written?
These highly skilled officers are appointed after a thorough grilling by many professional channels, including the senior appointments panel. One would have thought that all that scrutiny of their undoubted abilities would be sufficient for the MPA and the commissioner alone to agree without the final stamp of approval of the Secretary of State. I beg to move.
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Lord Harris of Haringey: I support the amendment on the basis that I hope we will get clarity from the Minister about the successive repetition of the phrase,
Is it intended to mean that candidates who are appointed will have been through the senior appointments panel before the appointments process or is it adding yet another stage to the appointments process so that after candidates have been through the senior appointments panel, having been short-listed and interviewed under a police authority process, they then have to go back for final approval by the Secretary of State? If it is the former rather than the latter, it seems a very cumbersome legislative way of expressing it. If it is the latter—that is, if there is a three-stage process with candidates first having to be vetted by the senior appointments panel, then being appointed by the police authority in consultation with the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis and then going for approval by the Secretary of State—I think that we will have created a new situation. It seems to me unnecessarily cumbersome, with an element of control-freakery, for the Home Office to control who fills senior office in the Met.
Lord Bradshaw: I have taken part on a number of these panels and I should like the Minister to explain very carefully who in the Home Office will use his name to carry out this approval. When you sit on an appointments panel with a list of names that have already been approved, it is usual at the end of the session—the chief constable is usually there—to appoint a person immediately. You do not have to say, “Thank you all very much. We’ll let you know when the Secretary of State has given his ruling”, knowing full well that it will not be the Secretary of State but one of his functionaries.
Viscount Bridgeman: The noble Lords, Lord Harris of Haringey and Lord Bradshaw, have made some very telling points, and we look forward to the Minister’s reply.
Lord West of Spithead: Amendments 14, 15 and 16 would remove the approval role of the Secretary of State in appointments to the Metropolitan Police at assistant commissioner, deputy assistant commissioner and commander levels. Amendment 17 would insert a new clause to allow a police authority to appoint and remove a senior officer without reference to the Secretary of State.
The Government recognise the hugely important role of police authorities, including the need to hold to account chief officers. However, the most senior officers have national roles to play, as well as leading within the communities that they serve. Therefore, it is necessary to retain a role for central government in approving these appointments and in any removal procedures.
Indeed, in certain circumstances, in may be necessary for the Home Secretary to take action, under Section 42 of the Police Act 1996, directly to secure the removal of a chief officer. There are cases where efficiency and effectiveness questions are of such severity that the Home Secretary needs to have the power to act in the public interest, notwithstanding the actions of the police authority. Examples of where this could
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Lord Harris of Haringey: I am grateful to my noble friend. The answer that he is giving, although compelling and interesting, is about the removal of senior officers, whereas the amendment is about the appointment of senior officers. Are we suggesting that in the Humberside case the Home Secretary of the day would have been so prescient that, at the moment the chief constable of Humberside was appointed, he would instantly have withheld his approval on the basis of what might happen some years in the future?
Lord West of Spithead: I was giving an example of where the Home Secretary might require the power to act in a specific case. My noble friend Lord Harris asked about this being another stage. The SAP advises the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State has already approved the short list, and his approval is required because of the national role of these officers.
The posts in the Metropolitan Police covered by the amendment are equivalent in seniority to chief constables, deputy chief constables and assistant chief constables. Therefore, the post holders are making a contribution of national significance and the Home Secretary needs to ensure that candidates have the necessary qualifications and expertise—for example, in collaboration between forces—to perform at this level. The amendments would also undermine the role of the senior appointments panel by preventing it advising on appointments to these ranks.
Lord Bradshaw: Is the Minister really suggesting that when the names are put forward for interview, the Home Secretary has already approved them but that somehow, between the time the approval is given by the Secretary of State and the interviews take place, these people suddenly become unsuitable and the Home Secretary changes his mind? That seems quite incredible.
Lord West of Spithead: I can think of occasions when, as Naval Secretary, I approved lists of people for promotion and there were then boards and so on, but when one looked in more detail, one discovered things that perhaps had not cropped up previously. Therefore, such a situation is feasible. I am simply going by personal experience of promotions within another organisation. Perhaps in the police that never happens but I just give that single example.
Lord Harris of Haringey: I am grateful to my noble friend for giving way yet again on this point. He seems to be saying that this is genuinely a three or perhaps a four-stage process. The first stage is that the Secretary of State gives approval to candidates to be interviewed through the senior appointments panel. The second stage is an interview by the police authority, and the third stage is consultation with the commissioner. However, there is then a fourth stage in which the Secretary of State either gives or declines to give approval to someone who has been through that process. Therefore, this clause creates a new superstructure in
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was simply a rather cack-handed way for the parliamentary draftsman to refer to the role of the senior appointments panel. However, we are now being told, although I hope I am wrong, that there will be an additional stage to the appointments process—something that was not deemed necessary when the Greater London Authority Act created a police authority for London, and something that was not deemed necessary when the precise arrangements for chairing the police authority were changed with an amendment to the Greater London Authority Act. I just wonder what appointment has taken place in the past nine years that the Home Secretary feels that he now needs these powers.
6 pm
Lord West of Spithead: As I understand it, that is what happens, but I will get advice from the Box on the exact stages. At the first stage, candidates are approved by the Home Secretary on advice from the SAP. The second stage is the interviews. At the third stage, the police authority decides who to appoint and there is no further role for the Home Secretary. I am afraid that I confused noble Lords with my last statement. I hope that that clarifies to my noble friend Lord Harris that there are still three stages, and that that is what is meant.
I gave some examples of where this might be required. I dealt with posts in the Metropolitan Police covered by the amendments. The tripartite has agreed a leadership strategy for the service that provides an analysis of the skills required in the top ranks of policing, in particular a need for further development in business, organisational and partnership working, alongside maintaining excellent operational skills. In order for the vision to be delivered, it is essential that the senior appointments panel is able to advise on appointments to all senior posts, and for all appointments to have the benefit of the panel’s expertise.
I hope that noble Lords can see that the amendments are not in the interest either of improving senior appointments in the Met, or of supporting the senior appointments panel in its work; and that Clause 2 is not a centralising measure, but is important to ensure that we have the best people leading the police in future, to protect the public locally and nationally. I invite the noble Baroness to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Harris of Richmond: I am grateful to the noble Lord for clarifying what is without doubt a very blurred area. I am also grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, for supporting my amendments. That was an unusual but very welcome addition to our debate. I am grateful also to my noble friend Lord Bradshaw, who will be speaking at greater length as we debate the Bill.
I do not agree with the Minister—he will not be surprised to hear me say that. I keep on about the powers of the Secretary of State. They have been
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Amendments 15 and 16 not moved.
18: After Clause 4, insert the following new Clause—
“Responsibilities of police authorities
(1) Each police authority may determine its own local precept agreement with the relevant local council or councils as appropriate to its individual requirements.
(2) Each police authority may determine its own fiscal priorities in accordance with its individual requirements.
(3) The Secretary of State may not give unsolicited directions to police authorities on local precepts, minimum budgets or fiscal priorities.
(4) Each police authority has a duty to consult with the Secretary of State, and to take account of national policing authorities.
(5) The Police Act 1996 (c. 16) is amended as follows.
(6) In section 6(2) (general functions of police authorities), omit paragraph (a).
(7) In section 6(2)(c) leave out “, whether in compliance with a direction under section 38 or otherwise”.
(8) In section 6 omit subsection (3).
(9) For section 37A (setting of strategic priorities for police authorities) substitute—
Each individual police authority must determine objectives for the policing of their own local area.”
(10) For section 38 (setting of performance targets) substitute—
Where an objective has been determined under section 37, the relevant police authority shall establish levels of performance (performance targets to be aimed at in seeking to achieve the objective).”
(11) Section 39 (codes of practice) is repealed.
(12) Section 41 (directions as to a minimum budget) is repealed.
(13) Section 44 (reports from chief constables) is repealed.
(14) The Local Government Act 1999 (c. 27) is amended as follows.
(15) In section 31(9) (major precepting authorities: further recognition), after “1992” insert “, but excluding police authorities and the Metropolitan Police Authority”.”
Baroness Harris of Richmond: The amendment was discussed in Committee in the other place. The proposed new clause sets out the responsibilities of police authorities. It gives them the power to determine their own council tax precepts and removes the powers of the Home Secretary to override it. It also gives police authorities the power to determine their own local policing priorities. Amendment 18 would give a directly elected police authority complete control over setting its precept, without being subject to the directives of central government, and therefore without the rate-capping and precept-capping powers that we have lived with for 20 years or more. It would also give the police authority more power and independence to set its own objectives in response to its local needs, community
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Lord Bradshaw: I return to the vexed issue of the rate capping in Surrey. This took place just before local county council elections, which would have determined the political appointees to the police authority. It is they who are in the majority when the precept is agreed—they must be in the majority. When the people of Surrey support the police authority—which they did—is it right that the Government should say, “You have had your say, you have said that you want these people and what they are doing, yet in the interests of local democracy we know better, and we set aside your decision”? Police authorities are aware of the need to keep the council tax down. They are also well aware of the efficiency opportunities in their area that they could take advantage of to do so. The Government are going beyond their role in stepping on what local people want.
Lord West of Spithead: Clearly, the noble Baronesses tabled these amendments because they think the Secretary of State’s powers and involvement in the budgetary and financial affairs, strategic direction and performance management of police authorities need to be fettered to allow them greater autonomy in determining their budgets. The proposed new clause suggests that police authorities do not already have the ability to determine their own local precepts. In fact, they already have the powers suggested by this amendment—under Section 40 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992, read with Section 19 of the Police Act 1996—and will continue to do so.
More worryingly, the proposed new clause seeks to remove the Government’s powers to cap police authorities. Ministers currently have powers under the Local Government Finance Act 1992—amended by the Local Government Act 1999—to cap excessive increases in council tax. These important powers protect council tax payers from excessive increases in council tax; but they are reserve powers, and are not used lightly. The Government are reluctant to cap, but cannot stand back and ignore circumstances where council tax payers are being subjected to excessive increases. It was a manifesto commitment that we would cap where such action was appropriate.
The noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, mentioned the Surrey police authority. The Government imposed a cap on its precept because, for the second year running, it was the only authority in England and Wales to propose an excessive increase in its precept. The noble Lord said that council tax payers in Surrey were happy about the increase. I do not know whether a survey showed that they were happy about the increase to their council tax—in most places in Britain, people are not happy about such increases. The matter of the Surrey police authority has been raised a number of times in the House.
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When capping action is initiated, authorities have a right to challenge their proposed caps, and Ministers are bound to consider their representations carefully before taking a final decision. Authorities can be confident that, under the current system, they can present their case and ensure that Ministers are fully aware of their circumstances before taking a final decision. This is being done. When a decision is taken to cap an authority in-year, or in advance for the following year, it is subject to the approval of the House of Commons unless an authority has accepted its proposed cap.
The proposed new clause goes on to remove the powers of the Secretary of State to make strategic policing priorities, performance targets and codes of practice. There will always be a need for national co-ordination of policing, so we will always need a national strategic framework to ensure that policing is being delivered efficiently and effectively. Strategic policing priorities, and the targets that flow from them, are vital to achieving this, as is the power to establish codes of conduct. They are always set at a very high level, stating what the Home Secretary thinks should be considered by police authorities when exercising their functions. They do not dictate how an authority acts or how it should act, but merely allow for a modest degree of national co-ordination of priorities. Removing them would mean that each authority would have to consult individually with the Secretary of State, and there would be no co-ordinated setting of priorities, as there is now.
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