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It is germane to our discussion this afternoon that I replied to a Written Question from the noble Lord, Lord Taylor. He asked,
- "how many permits covered by the draft Groundwater (England and Wales) Regulations 2009 are outstanding in each region in England and Wales".
"The following classes of permits are subject to the existing (1998) Groundwater Regulations and will become valid permits for the purposes of the Groundwater Regulations 2009 when they come into force:
(1) Consents to discharge to groundwater under the Water Resources Act 1991.
(2) Permits under Environmental Permitting Regulations 2007 where these may result in inputs to groundwater.
(3) Groundwater authorisations under the Groundwater Regulations 1998.
There are upwards of 20,000 such permits in total. The number of new applications and variations to such permits will fluctuate daily as they are submitted and processed according to statutory procedures. There is currently no significant backlog of applications".
So we have an order of magnitude, but I cannot be absolutely precise in my response.
- "To provide an analysis of each outstanding permit broken down by region would require detailed searches of Environment Agency permitting databases which would incur disproportionate cost". -[Official Report, 5/10/09; col. WA468.]
On what grounds will the EA be able to refuse to issue a permit? Site-specific assessment will determine the circumstances in which a permit may be refused.
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Will a web-based registration scheme for discharges from isolated dwellings be a record of all discharges or a record of septic tank owners? I emphasise that under the regulations, the current exemption continues until 1 January 2012. The objective is to know the location of septic tanks and which properties are served by them. That will facilitate the identification of problems and encourage good practice. I will come to the point about communication raised by the noble Baroness in more detail in a moment.
How does the Environment Agency discover that someone is discharging less than two cubic metres of effluent daily, and how does it chase it to the source? We intend to adopt a sensitive and light-touch approach whenever we can. It is possible to identify areas which are not served by mains sewerage and new properties by the planning system. The number of people occupying a property, which gives an indication of the volume of discharge is, as I said, 10, so we have some idea of where the problem may occur.
What is the current extent of groundwater pollution from domestic septic tanks that discharge less then two cubic centimetres a day and can this be characterised by the type of location of concealed equipment? What is the level of resulting damage? The Environment Agency is aware of some locations where aggregations of septic tanks are believed to be responsible for pollution. Because of the absence of reliable data on the location of septic tanks, it is difficult to address these issues at present. The condition, operation and maintenance of equipment must determine its performance, as all noble Lords will recognise. Typically, diffuse pollution will result from some aggregation of septic tanks. Occasionally, an individual septic tank may threaten a drinking water supply-hence the requirement for a permit when that tank is close to such drinking water locations.
What is the probable charge for a permit to use a septic tank? There will be no registration fee for the foreseeable future. There is an application fee for tanks which currently require a permit, which is a one-off charge of £124. This is reviewed annually after consultation, but there is no annual subsistence charge. The Environment Agency's charging scheme for 2010-11, which is out to consultation, proposes a 1 per cent increase on the basic charge.
What is the Environment Agency's predicted cost of enforcing the legislation on daily discharges of less than two cubic centimetres from isolated dwellings? The cost of applications is fully covered by an application fee, in line with cost-recovery principles. Enforcement
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The impact assessment sought information on which groundwater policy would be reviewed to establish actual costs and benefits. The Government propose to make this part of the regular river basin management process. Will Defra then collate these data to come up with an annual summary of costs and benefits? We are a little foxed by this question, which is challenging. The Environment Agency has proposed individual impact assessments for each river basin management plan. These were published on Monday. As I indicated in my opening remarks, the review will be in line with the six-yearly, not annual, cycle of the plans.
How will the agency inform householders in isolated dwellings that they may require a permit and what will it need to make that decision? Since the exemption from the need for a permit lasts until January 2012, there is some time available to us to give this important issue full consideration. I recognise the anxieties to which the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, gave voice. The Environment Agency is considering how relevant requirement will be brought to the attention of septic tank users. Guidance on the requirements of these regulations, which will also apply to the EPRs, has been prepared and will be issued for consultation as soon as we have it ready. I accept entirely what the noble Baroness said, and the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, indicated his concern about how we communicate effectively in these areas. I am all too well aware of the fact that government in all their forms need to do that. I answered a Question in the House only yesterday about the Inland Revenue and effective communication via the web. That is effective communication for a percentage of our citizens. It is less effective for some, due to their computer literacy, and for others because they do not have any access to the web. That was the point made by the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Taylor. We need to address that issue and we take it on board entirely.
Will householders who pay to have septic tanks emptied need a permit? The answer is no. The regular emptying of a septic tank is a matter of good practice. Permits will be required in locations that are, for example, close to a drinking water supply. I return to the main concern that we all have about the purity of our water. All other tanks are exempt until January 2012 and thereafter will be subject to legislation under the proposed EPRs.
Will these regulations heap more costs onto the community for very little benefit? That was the theme of the noble Lord's anxieties. I can answer categorically no, in those terms. The impact assessment for the directive negotiations showed a broadly cost-neutral outcome in relation to resources already committed to the implementation of the water framework directive; that is our judgment, as I said in my opening remarks. The position on transposition is similar, although there is an element of swings and roundabouts in that some operators will benefit while others might incur modest additional costs. For example, permit holders under the existing regime may incur some additional costs for higher risk activities, but for those of a lower
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I was asked whether charges to farmers will rise as a result of these regulations. They will not do so directly, as they make no provision for additional or higher charges. They carry over the existing arrangements set out in the 1980 groundwater regulations they replace, and the charges made by the EA are reviewed annually through established arrangements for the agency to recover its costs, a point I made earlier. That is the sole concern of the agency in levying its fees. However, the 2006 groundwater directive does not stipulate a review period for authorisation, and neither do the proposed regulations. This means that a review can be conducted on the basis of need rather than a rigid four-year cycle. Less frequent reviews, where this is possible, will mean lower charges, and therefore will be welcomed by the Committee.
The noble Baroness asked me about the position of the landlord and the tenant. Normally, we would expect the liability to rest with the occupier and user, but there might be tenancy agreements written in different terms and therefore we cannot be categorical in the legislation. However, the expectation is that the occupier and user would be the liable person.
I think that I have answered the questions put to me on the general aspects of communications, and I want to emphasise that in the department we are all too aware, as indeed is the Environment Agency, of the need for the effective communication of these important matters. The noble Lord, Lord Greaves, asked me about a review of the permits, which will apply only to existing permits. Not all septic tanks are affected, rather it is only those with permits because they are in sensitive locations. There will be no specific review period for revision; it will be done when it is required.
Lord Davies of Oldham: I thought for a moment that I was near the end, but I give way to the noble Lord.
Lord Greaves: I am grateful to the Minister. I do not think that the question about permits refers specifically to septic tanks. The point I raised was that although the new, more flexible system of review is welcome, in that it does not have to be carried out every four years but will be done on the basis of risk, the regulations as set out appear to say that all existing permits have to be reviewed before 22 December 2012. My question concerned the scale of resources required to do that.
Baroness Byford: My Lords, perhaps I may return to two points. I will read the Minister's remarks very carefully tomorrow, but I think he referred to sealed septic tanks. Could he define what they are?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach: I think that the noble Lord referred to sealed cesspits.
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Baroness Byford: I thank my noble friend because I was not sure whether I had heard it correctly.
My other question is this. When the Environment Agency reviews its costs and charges, will anyone else be able to check them or is the agency free to set its charges at levels it regards as relevant?
Lord Davies of Oldham: The Environment Agency is under the scrutiny of the obvious source; namely, the Secretary of State. He examines the decisions the agency takes. If it were thought that the agency was levying charges that could not be justified by the actions being carried out, the Secretary of State would be expected to act. I am in no doubt that if it did not happen at this end of the building, there would be a fair fuss at the other end. There is a fallback position in those terms.
I just say to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, that the current four-yearly review is in its last cycle, which will be completed in 2012.
6 pm
Lord Taylor of Holbeach: Before the Minister concludes, it is of interest that there are two elements to the regulations: there is the registration requirement and the permitting element. As I understand it, the permitting element refers to those in a location that may give rise to a hazard. If that is the case, I seek to make a plea to the Minister that for those whose responsibility is purely to register that they have a non-mains sewerage system, the registration should be kept as simple as possible. If the registration requires a full description of the system employed, I can assure him that in old properties, it is almost impossible to know quite how the system operates. Bits may have been added on, and it would be difficult for individuals if they subsequently found themselves falling foul of the regulations, which carry quite heavy penalties, because they had failed accurately to describe the full implications of their system. If registration is considered to be necessary, it should be kept as straightforward and simple as possible so that people feel that they can comply without too much wear and tear on their nerves.
Lord Davies of Oldham: That point is well received. I said that we are concerned to deliver light-touch regulation. I entirely understand what he says about registration; that point will be borne in mind.
Lord Greaves: I wonder whether I can have one final bite at the review business. The Minister says that we are within a four-year review period that ends on 22 December 2012. Regulation 12(2) seems to say that all the existing permits must be reviewed between the coming into force of the regulations and that date. Is the Minister saying that in practice, reviews that have taken place during the past year-because we appear to be about one year into the four-year review period-will be counted, regardless of what the regulations say?
Lord Davies of Oldham: I am grateful to the noble Lord and I will address the specific point in a moment. The regulations exempt until 2012. The registration,
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I have answered noble Lords as far as I am able in what has been a very intensive debate. I am only too
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Committee adjourned at 6.05 pm.
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