Examination of Witnesses (Questions 140-153)
Lord Moonie
10 MARCH 2009
Q140 Lord Dholakia: Can I just take
you to the Code of Conduct, and I can well understand that you
had not refreshed yourself at the particular stage of your conversation.
The paragraph that interests me is the seven general principles
which were identified by the Committee of Standards in Public
Life and that very much applies to Members of Parliament in the
Commons as much as they form part of the Code of Conduct in this
particular document. Would you say that in your conversation with
the Sunday Times you did not realise at that particular
stage that these particular seven principles were observed?
Lord Moonie: Do you have a copy of them?
That is the one thing I do not seem to have.
Q141 Chairman: We can give you a
copy of that.
Lord Moonie: Although I have looked at
them fairly recently.
Baroness Manningham-Buller: Paragraph five.
Q142 Chairman: Paragraph five on
the front page of the Code of Conduct.
Lord Moonie: Yes. I believe that I applied
them completely, yes. I would not dream of doing anything else.
Lord Dholakia: Chairman, can I ask whether we
could obtain a copy of the sample contract which Lord Moonie did
refer to as being this type of situation.
Q143 Chairman: Are you happy to leave
those with us, Lord Moonie?
Lord Moonie: I am only one party to these.
If they are not used publicly, yes, of course, and they have not
been referred to.
Q144 Lord Irvine of Lairg: It may
be sufficient if we just cast our eye over them.
Lord Moonie: I am very happy to, yes.
Q145 Chairman: Fine, thank you. Are
there any other questions anybody wants to ask? Is there anything
else that you want to say by way of conclusion, Lord Moonie?
Lord Moonie: Only that I believe I tried
to act properly in this situation. It was an informal discussion
followed up by an informal offer to work for them, suggesting
a range of fees. I would honestly have expected anything in detail
to stem from a draft written contract which is what occurs, it
is what you do. I agree that Members have to be very careful what
they do when they take outside paid work, particularly when it
involves consultancy work. With regard to the last two conversations
I had with Mr Gillard, as I have said, they were held under difficult
circumstances. Had I been thinking straight I would not have had
them at all, but I did. I think they reflect the circumstances
in which the conversations were held rather than any intent on
my part to do anything. I entirely rebut, refute the allegation
that I offered to do anything for them that was outside the rules
as I saw them and as I think they have been explained to me today.
Q146 Chairman: Thank you. If you
can wait for a few minutes we will just have a quick look at those
contracts.
Lord Moonie: You are welcome to hold
them for longer than that if you wish.
Q147 Chairman: I think we will just
have a quick look at them now and make sure you take them with
you. In the meantime, can I say thank you very much indeed for
coming in and your time. As I said earlier, we will be in touch
with you with the transcripts which you can correct but not change
and obviously if you can let us have them back as soon as possible.
Thank you very much indeed.
Lord Moonie: (After a short pause) I
do not know if you are familiar with US law but Sarbanes-Oxley
rules on foreign interests, I think, very much define how a contract
with an American organisation is written. In Northrop Grumman's
case you have separate contracts whether you are an internal adviser,
as I am, or an external adviser who may speak to anybody commercial
or otherwise outside the company.
Q148 Chairman: Just for my information,
are these contracts part of the parliamentary consultancy or non-parliamentary
consultancy?
Lord Moonie: These are non-parliamentary.
Q149 Chairman: They are registered
as such?
Lord Moonie: They are registered under
12(d).
Q150 Chairman: 12(e)?
Lord Moonie: 12(d), I think.
Q151 Chairman: "... as a non-parliamentary
consultant.", so that is where they would be registered?
Lord Moonie: Yes.
Q152 Lord Dholakia: It says here,
"This agreement should be construed in accordance with the
laws of the State of Virginia."
Lord Moonie: That is where they are incorporated.
They were merely an illustration.
Q153 Chairman: Yes, indeed, of course.
Lord Moonie: Thank you very much.
Chairman: I will say thank you very much and
thank you for your time this morning.
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