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9 Mar 2010 : Column 129



9 Mar 2010 : Column 129

House of Lords

Tuesday, 9 March 2010.

2.30 pm

Prayers-read by the Lord Bishop of Bradford.

Manufacturing: West Midlands Advisory Service

Question

2.37 pm

Asked By Lord Bilston

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Lord Young of Norwood Green): My Lords, expenditure on the manufacturing service in the West Midlands since the start of the current contract in April 2007 has been £12.5 million up to December 2009. This has provided more than 240,000 manufacturing reviews with companies and nearly 1,600 consultancy-supported projects. The businesses that are assisted by the Manufacturing Advisory Service in the West Midlands have reported total benefits of £105 million, and additional sales turnover of £156 million.

Lord Bilston: I thank my noble friend for that positive reply. I should point out that the West Midlands Manufacturing Advisory Service has indeed been a great success in the Midlands for manufacturing since its inception in 2002. Will my noble friend assure this House that a Labour Government will continue to support manufacturing in the West Midlands and the West Midlands Manufacturing Advisory Service, together with Advantage West Midlands, which is doing such a fine job for our region?

Lord Young of Norwood Green:Some people seem to doubt spontaneity. I thank my noble friend for that question. I assure him that the West Midlands Manufacturing Advisory Service is a good example of the very practical and effective support that is available to manufacturers through manufacturing advisory services across the country. In the past financial year, it has helped more than 8,000 manufacturers to achieve an added value of £120 million. As we know, support to manufacturers is vital if the UK is to rebalance the economy. We have directly invested a further £8 million in the Manufacturing Advisory Service, and nearly £1 million of vital investment for the West Midlands as part of the Strategic Investment Fund, to carry on the good work and to support opportunities in low-carbon and advanced manufacturing where the UK has capability and there is the potential for significant growth.



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Lord De Mauley: My Lords, if everything is as rosy as the Minister has just set out, how does he explain today's frankly awful figures from the Office for National Statistics, which show that our goods trade deficit with the rest of the world actually rose in January to almost £8 billion and that exports have fallen by 7 per cent.? Does he accept that his Government have singularly failed to resolve blockages in trade finance that underpins UK global trade, which is so vital to facilitate British exports?

Lord Young of Norwood Green: My Lords, we were focusing on the West Midlands, but no, I do not accept the noble Lord's analysis. If we were to proceed in the way in which Her Majesty's Opposition would like us to go, we would be scrapping the regional development agency against the wishes of business and the chamber of commerce, which seems to me surprising. In attempts to ensure that we do boost the economy, it is noticeable that, when things such as the vehicle scrappage scheme have been introduced, they have been opposed by the Opposition, even though they have provided a huge boost to the car industry. Industry figures have shown again and again the benefits of that scheme.

Lord Razzall: My Lords, I am sure the Minister shares the admiration of your Lordships' House for the pre-emptive strike made by the noble Lord, Lord Bilston, in relation to potential cuts in services that are obviously on the way. In looking at the overall position of manufacturing advisory services throughout the country, is the Minister prepared to share with the House the evaluation which, presumably, the Government have done as to exactly what the benefit is overall, as we approach this period when cuts in services are inevitable?

Lord Young of Norwood Green: My Lords, we believe that there have been significant benefits, which is why we are going to continue to invest in the advisory service. We have seen the figures for the improvements in profitability, to which I referred in my opening remarks. Since the programme started in 2002, more than 12,000 projects with manufacturing companies have resulted in added value to the companies of more than £700 million. We believe that to be a very worthwhile investment.

Lord Soley: My Lords, I wonder whether my noble friend could use these advisory services to get over the message to people of just how successful manufacturing is in the UK. We are not just the sixth largest manufacturing country in the world. In the West Midlands and in other areas, we have the most advanced industries: sub-sea platforms, aerospace, the creative industries-one could list them for ages, but if one reads the papers, one would think there is no manufacturing industry left in this country. So can we please try to get that message over through these bodies?

Lord Young of Norwood Green: My Lords, I absolutely agree with my noble friend. It is unfortunate that the Opposition do nothing but talk down the contribution made by manufacturing industry rather than giving it support and boosting its confidence.



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Lord Tebbit: My Lords, is the Minister aware that, either out of embarrassment or ignorance, he did not answer the question put to him by my noble friend on the Conservative Front Bench? He was not asked what a future Conservative Government would do; he was asked about what his Government have done. Would he now like to tell us?

Lord Young of Norwood Green: My Lords, I mentioned several significant areas, but I can add to what we will be doing because we believe in the regional development agencies. So we will be giving an extension to the Accelerate programme for automotive companies-an additional £5 million of support through the advisory service. There is also a highly successful £11 million advantage transition bridge fund, and support for the regions' community development finance institutions, offering loans of up to £50,000 for small and medium enterprises. That is real, positive support for industry.

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock: My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that the West Midlands Manufacturing Advisory Service is in no way connected with the Midlands Industrial Council, a Tory front organisation which puts money into providing constituency consultancy services for marginal seats? Will my noble friend confirm to the House, and perhaps also to the noble Lord, Lord Ashcroft, that British elections are there to be fought and won, not to be bought?

Lord Young of Norwood Green: I think I share some of my noble friend's concern about some of these rather doubtful organisations.

EU: Emissions Trading Scheme

Question

2.45 pm

Asked By Lord Vinson

The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath): My Lords, the Government consider that a very limited number of sectors are likely to be at significant risk of carbon leakage as a result of the EU Emissions Trading Scheme. The risk of carbon leakage is reviewed regularly in close consultation with UK business, and my department has commissioned further research on this risk, which we hope will be completed in the summer.

Lord Vinson: I thank the Minister for his considered reply. Does he really think it sensible to pile penalty taxes on to industries that are inherently carbon producing and, under the existing technologies, incapable of making worthwhile carbon savings? Instead of enforcing yet another damaging EU regulation, would it not be

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more sensible to have our own carbon saving scheme as Australia does, rather than face the possibility of creating massive redundancies over the next two or three years, particularly in the north-east, by implementing a wholly inappropriate EU regulation at this time?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: No, my Lords, I do not agree. We are part of the EU and it is entirely appropriate that we should be part of the EU emissions trading system, which is consistent with the targets for carbon reduction that the EU has agreed. On the substantive question, from the research that has been undertaken, there is very little evidence that companies are at risk of competitive disadvantage because of the emissions scheme. In phase 3 of the EU ETS, a number of decisions have been made which could mitigate it if such evidence arose.

Lord Teverson: My Lords, I remind the Minister that the UK has its own emissions scheme-the carbon reduction commitment, which he is about to introduce, in case he had forgotten. Perhaps one of the ways to solve this problem is to have a more level playing field globally. What are the Commission and the Government doing in terms of working with other Administrations, such as the states on the west coast of America and the Canadian provinces, all of which have their own schemes, to ensure that they tie up globally and co-operate so that there is not the carbon leakage that we could otherwise have?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I had not forgotten that; we debated the relevant statutory instruments in this very Chamber three weeks ago, although I do not think the noble Lord was present on that occasion. I think that he is really suggesting the creation of a global carbon market, and he is absolutely right to do so. Not only would that have a positive impact on emission reductions, it would mean a level playing field, and some of the issues of concern that are always being raised would then not arise. We had hoped that we would see the necessary steps at Copenhagen, but there has been a setback. However, I can assure the noble Lord that we will work very hard as a country and as part of the EU in encouraging the development of carbon markets worldwide.

Lord Lawson of Blaby: My Lords-

Lord Stoddart of Swindon: My Lords-

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I can hardly intervene on my own Question. Shall we hear from the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, and then the noble Lord, Lord Lawson?

Lord Stoddart of Swindon: My Lords, I shall keep my question short. Is the noble Lord aware of a new carbon emissions scheme that is being considered by the European Commission that could cost an extra £3.2 billion for British industry? Is that true?



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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: I think that the noble Lord is referring to phase 3 of the EU Emissions Trading Scheme. It has an impact on electricity and other prices, but the Government believe it is much better that we reduce emissions as quickly as possible. The work of the noble Lord, Lord Stern, shows that it is more cost-effective to take action now. There is no long-term future in high-carbon industry, and the fact is that the Emissions Trading Scheme is a market-based approach that incentivises companies to reduce their emissions. I believe that that is the best approach.

Lord Lawson of Blaby: My Lords, the Minister refers to the work of the noble Lord, Lord Stern, as having shown something. It has shown nothing of the sort and has been demolished by all reputable economists. Leaving that aside, when is the Minister going to regain some contact with reality in the interests of having a sensible policy? Is he not aware, despite what he assured the House last year, that not only was there no global agreement at Copenhagen, but there is an article in today's Financial Times, in which its environment correspondent is lamenting, for good reason, why there is not going to be any agreement in Mexico later this year either? How can this damaging policy possibly make sense?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the Government's policy makes sense because climate change is one of the major issues that we face. Unless we take action to reduce emissions, the consequences for the world will be catastrophic. That is why the work of the noble Lord, Lord Stern, has not been undermined. I believe that it is entirely credible in showing that the sooner we take action, the more cost-effective it will be.

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: My Lords, is it not true that the European Emissions Trading Scheme is the cornerstone of the policy on tackling climate change? If the UK were to withdraw from it, it would greatly undermine that policy and the objectives of trying to secure the planet for the future would fall. Should we not be looking to a more positive approach, exploring areas such as shipping, agriculture and so on, which also need to be brought into the European Emissions Trading Scheme and spread on a global worldwide basis in due course?

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, there is much in what my noble friend says. He will, of course, be aware that the aviation sector is being brought into the EU Emissions Trading Scheme from 2012. As far as shipping is concerned, the Government have been very active in pressing the International Maritime Organisation to address seriously the contribution of the maritime sector to climate change. We will continue to keep up the pressure in other sectors.

Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, a new proposal from the European Commission that there should be a European Union-wide carbon tax has been reported in the newspapers. Could the Minister comment on that? Are HMG in favour of it?



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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the House will know that the Government are not in favour of fiscal policy being set by the European Union. The advantage of the EU Emissions Trading Scheme is that it sets a cap on emissions which is consistent with the targets on carbon reduction the EU has agreed to. The trading system is a much better approach because it is a market base, providing incentives to businesses to reduce their emissions.

Government Records: 30-year Rule

Question

2.52 pm

Asked By Lord Lester of Herne Hill

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Bach): My Lords, the Government published their response to Review of the 30 Year Rule to Parliament and the general public on 25 February 2010. A copy of the response is available in the Library of the House. The Government also tabled an amendment to the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill on the same day to bring forward the legislation necessary to implement the change to the 30-year rule and other key proposals set out in the response.

Lord Lester of Herne Hill: My Lords, I greatly welcome the Government's response, both in their paper and in securing amendments that we hope will survive any wash-up and become law. My concern is whether the Government, having willed the end, have also willed the means. The Dacre report, as the Minister will know, recommended that the Government should make adequate additional provision in the 2011 to 2014 period and subsequent Comprehensive Spending Reviews for all records-related activities in the way that was spelled out. As I understand it-the Minister will correct me if I am wrong-the Government have rejected the notion of any additional resources. Will that not undermine the whole operation?

Lord Bach: My Lords, first things first. I am grateful to the noble Lord for his support. This is in a Bill that is to come before this House in a couple of weeks' time and then we will see what happens to it. I have no doubt that all its parts will be widely accepted around the House-certainly this part will. As to the future, we will see. We have made an impact assessment, which estimates a total cost of between £50 million and £80 million over a 10-year transition period. We shall work with central government and the wider archive sector to ensure that transition to the new rule can be achieved in the most cost-effective manner.

Lord Henley: The noble Lord is being somewhat coy. He said that the Bill will come before the House in a couple of weeks' time; I think that it comes before the House on 24 March for its Second Reading. When does the noble Lord think that it will reach Committee stage, when we can debate this matter in greater detail?



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Lord Bach: The noble Lord asks a most interesting question. I hope that we will move to Committee stage pretty quickly.

Lord Morgan: My Lords, to get back to the Question asked, is it not the case that the 30-year rule is now impossible to defend because it is routinely bypassed or ignored in prime ministerial, ministerial and Civil Service memoirs, which are frequently self-serving and highly remunerated? Is not the rule now simply an obstacle to serious historical scholarship? Does it not run counter to the Government's otherwise admirable policy on the freedom of information?

Lord Bach: My Lords, we hope to get rid of the 30-year rule and to make it a 20-year rule, which will make a difference. It will result in increased transparency and accountability in government by allowing the public automatically to access and scrutinise large numbers of important historical documents a good deal earlier. My noble friend's question relates really to the Radcliffe rules and the issue of ministerial and civil servant memoirs. These have been the subject of two recent reviews and we do not believe that a full independent review is necessary. However, the Cabinet Office will revisit the Radcliffe rules in light of the comments in the 30-year rule review.

Lord Wallace of Tankerness: My Lords, in the spirit of openness that has led to the proposed change from a 30-year rule to a 20-year rule, will the Government look at those categories of exempt information for which there is not even a 100-year rule, let alone a 30-year rule, including defence, international relations, the economy, health and safety? Would government Ministers be prepared to consider even a 100-year rule for these? What justification is there for an indefinite application of the exemption? Are the Government afraid that information from 1910 might jeopardise our relationship with Germany? I can assure him that on these Benches a full disclosure of the economic stewardship of David Lloyd George would be very welcome.

Lord Bach: My Lords, the noble Lord makes it sound very easy, but it is not as easy as that. We have removed a number of exemptions and some exemptions that were absolute are now qualified. The absolute exemptions that still remain cover information provided by what is called a Section 23 body, such as the security agencies, the Special Forces and the serious organised crime agencies. In relation to national security, there is no time limit but a qualified exemption so that information can be got out if that is in the public interest. Information whose disclosure would prejudice our international relations is, again, qualified, while information that would be prejudicial to the prevention and detection of crime and the administration of justice-the category subject to the 100-year rule-is also qualified.

Lord Wright of Richmond: My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is to be congratulated on an exception in the other direction-namely, the publication last year of a remarkable set of documents on German reunification, which I commend to the House?

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