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I should like to reflect a little on the idea that someone is highly incentivised to go back to work if he or she is a homeowner. I am not sure that the fact that one rents a property would decrease one's desire to get back to work, but perhaps that is a debate for another day. I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation. I think we understand where we are going to be on support for mortgage interest in universal credit, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 33B withdrawn.

Amendment 34 not moved.

The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Brougham and Vaux): We come to Amendment 34A. Lady Hollis?

Baroness Hollis of Heigham: My Lords, I want to put a question to the Committee. We are going into a major new topic, which is underoccupancy. My amendment is primarily about the nature of the stock.

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Then there are additional issues about individual clients-foster carers and so on-who may be affected. I could be wrong, but even just on my amendment, were the Minister to have time to reply-given possible other contributions from people who may be as concerned as I am-we will here be till 6.30, or later. I wonder whether that is wise, given that we have been sitting for three and a half hours. I am perfectly happy to continue and I do not want to delay the Committee, but I would be unhappy to see us start an amendment and stop halfway through the discussion. Conventionally, we conclude discussion of an amendment-that has always been the case on the Floor of the House and I would expect it to apply here-so that the debate is coherent. However, I suspect that that would take us well past the closing time of 6 pm. I do not know how other Members of the Grand Committee feel, but perhaps if they have views on this they could indicate that. I realise that this is a matter for the usual channels, but it is slightly unprecedented to be off the Floor of the House and starting such a big debate. Furthermore, Amendments 34A and 35 should really be taken together in the same range of debate. We could not possibly do that tonight. I do not want to be unhelpful, but I feel that it is slightly awkward to start now. However, I absolutely respect the will of the Committee.

Lord Skelmersdale: My Lords, for myself, I believe that the availability of suitable accommodation-in other words, the single room rate and all the rest that follows-is actually a fairly discrete subject.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham: No, this is not that subject; Amendment 34A refers to underoccupancy. I think the noble Lord is referring to Amendment 37.

Lord Skelmersdale: Amendment 34A states,

"taking into account the availability of suitable accommodation".

Baroness Hollis of Heigham: Forgive me, there are two separate amendments dealing specifically with the single room rate later. I think that that raises very real concerns among people, as I am sure the noble Lord would agree, but that subject is not in Amendment 34A.

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This is primarily about stock. I hope-and I look to the noble Lord, Lord Best, on this-that this is a different set of issues.

Lord De Mauley: My Lords, I was aware that this would be an issue. I have applied for divine inspiration, but I do not yet have it. However, I do not think that it would look good if the Committee stopped its deliberations so far in advance of the normal time. While I apply for further divine inspiration, I suggest that the debate begins and I will see what I can do to facilitate matters.

The Deputy Chairman of Committees: The Companion says Thursdays 2 pm to 6 pm for Grand Committees.

Lord McAvoy: My Lords, I do not wish to be unhelpful either, but that is the guidance that I received. This is my first experience as a Whip taking a Bill through Committee. That is compounded by the fact that this Committee is not meeting on the Floor of the House. I understand that on the Floor of the House a debate is finished, and have experience of that. It may be a reflection on me that I have not managed the amendments better. Nevertheless, I have received guidance from the Chief Whip that, as was just read out, a Grand Committee session lasts between 2 pm and 6 pm.

Lord Rix: My Lords, the problem with our group of amendments-I wish to speak myself to Amendment 35 -is that it is a very large group, and I think a lot of people may wish to speak to it. I therefore suspect that if we started now and continued to do housing, we would be here long after 6.30 pm.

Baroness Wilkins: My Lords, I do feel that we should stop now because the next group concerns a very large subject and we are all very tired after this week.

Lord De Mauley: Very well. This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Tuesday at 3.30 pm.

Committee adjourned at 5.40 pm.

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