7 Jan 2014 : Column 1387

House of Lords

Tuesday, 7 January 2014.

2.30 pm

Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds.

UK: EU Membership


2.36 pm

Asked by Lord Dykes

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of public reaction to recent ministerial statements about United Kingdom membership of the European Union.

The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): My Lords, I start the year by wishing all noble Lords a very happy new year. It is clear that there is wide support for the United Kingdom’s membership of a reformed European Union, both in the United Kingdom and across Europe.

Lord Dykes (LD): I thank the Minister for that Answer and wish her a happy new year. Will she reassure the House that the Government will be earnestly rebutting the nationalist hysteria in some of our newspapers in this country and in UKIP about various aspects of European policy and will she constantly remind the public—and the Government too—of the enormous benefits that accrue to us from membership of the European Union?

Baroness Warsi: My Lords, membership of the European Union is in the United Kingdom’s interests and we will continue to make the case vigorously as we progress with our proposals for reforming the EU. My noble friend is absolutely right that there is no doubt about the huge benefits that membership of the European Union brings to us, including the 3.5 million jobs in the United Kingdom which are dependent upon trade with the EU.

Lord Soley (Lab): Is the Minister aware of the enormous damage that the Government’s constant criticism of this country’s membership of the European Union is doing to Britain’s reputation within Europe? Increasingly we are seen as a semi-detached part of Europe, and that does us immense damage.

Baroness Warsi: There are voices across European Union countries that echo our sentiment that we need to move forward with a reformed European Union. Indeed, after the Prime Minister’s speech, we heard voices from the Netherlands, Sweden, Austria and across the European Union who, too, felt that we need to have a Europe which is much more flexible and democratically responsive to the needs of its members.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1388

Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP):Surely the noble Baroness did not suggest that, were we to leave the political construct of the European Union and maintain our free trade, as of course we would because it sells us much more than we sell it, any jobs would be lost. She was not saying that, was she?

Baroness Warsi: I did not quite catch the question, but I can assume what the noble Lord asked. There are great benefits to our membership of the European Union.

Baroness Knight of Collingtree (Con): Does my noble friend agree that, not only is there an overwhelming desire among the British people to have their say on this matter, such an opportunity gives all of us a first-rate chance to make the case for strong membership of Europe?

Baroness Warsi: My noble friend makes a vital point. The question about the direction in which the European Union is heading is out there and ignoring it will not make it go away. Therefore it is right that the Conservative Party’s political view is that we will negotiate a fresh settlement and then hold an in/out referendum before the end of 2017. We on these Benches feel that we need to let Britain decide, and I hope noble Lords will follow in the referendum Bill we have at the end of the week.

Lord Tomlinson (Lab): Will the noble Baroness accept that, grateful as we all were for her best wishes for a happy new year, perhaps she ought to direct them to Mr Clegg and Mr Cameron with a maybe forlorn hope that they will manage to get on with each other on the important issue of Europe?

Baroness Warsi: I firmly hope and believe that the season of good will is not over. I can assure the noble Lord that, as far as the coalition is concerned, the season of good will is certainly there and we have a coalition that is working well.

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab): My Lords, given the leadership role that the noble Baroness has just outlined for Britain regarding a number of countries in Europe, can she say whether that leadership will be advocating to those countries that they should undertake a referendum in the form that we are?

Baroness Warsi: I am really sorry—I think it must be my hearing today.

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe: I will repeat the question and try to put it in simple terms. Are we as the new leaders of a grouping in Europe advocating that others should undertake a referendum in the form that we are likely to take in this country?

Baroness Warsi: I think the Conservative Party’s position is that this country needs to have the option to decide and that is why we feel that a referendum should be held in this country before the end of 2017.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1389

Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD): My Lords, does my noble friend accept that the leadership of the EU, which will of course be renewed post the European elections in 2014, would be advantaged by having a senior Briton among its leadership team? We have had the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, who we know has done such a super job. Does she agree that in seeking a British candidate on the leadership team it would be again be highly advantageous to have a female in those positions?

Baroness Warsi: My Lords, I am always supportive of Brits holding leadership positions in all institutions, including EU ones. Certainly, strong female leaders from this House have made a great impact in those institutions.

Lord Liddle (Lab): My Lords, does the Minister think that the Government are going about it in the right way to win friends and influence people to carry through their legitimate programme of reform for the EU? In the last month we have seen Ministers of the Crown stigmatising Bulgarians and Romanians as benefit tourists, threatening, to the great annoyance of the Polish Foreign Minister, Poles with benefit changes in the UK and attempting to blame Germany for all the horrors of the First World War. Is this the right way to go about winning friends in Europe?

Baroness Warsi: It is important that Ministers do what they can to make sure that the best possible outcome for Britain is achieved. I think the noble Lord would accept that the first ever cut in the EU’s seven-year budget last year and protection of the UK’s rebate were two great successes. He would also accept that changes and reforms to the common fisheries policy—again Britain putting its interests on the table but doing so in the interests of all of the European Union—are progressive steps. We can therefore show that the Government can act in the interests of the United Kingdom in a way that is also beneficial to the rest of the European Union.

Lord Kilclooney (CB): As a former MEP, can I ask the noble Baroness to tell us what the great benefits of membership of the European Union are, other than the single market?

Baroness Warsi: Of course, the single market is one of its greatest benefits, both in relation to the amount of trade—the large marketplace that the European Union presents—and the free movement of persons around the European Union. Let us not also forget that the ambitious trade treaties that the European Union has managed to negotiate with larger developing economies around the world have had great benefits for Britain.



2.45 pm

Asked by Lord Balfe

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what preliminary assessment they have made of the recent lifting of restrictions on citizens coming to the United Kingdom from Romania and Bulgaria.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1390

Earl Attlee (Con): My Lords, it is too early to provide such an assessment. We have taken the advice of the independent Migration Advisory Committee, which concluded that it would not be sensible or helpful to policymakers to make predictions about likely volumes. The Government are doing everything they can to ensure that people who come to the UK from the EU do so for the right reasons—to work hard and to contribute to our economy and society.

Lord Balfe (Con): I thank my noble friend for his reply. Does he accept that migrants from these countries, many of them highly skilled, come to Britain because the expanding, vibrant and welcoming economy gives many opportunities for self-advancement? Secondly, has he sympathy with Romanian Ministers who have pointed out that, with 866,000 persons in the UK being registered unemployed for more than a year, the UK Government might be well employed in reviewing benefit levels for the UK unemployed to a level at which they might be encouraged to apply for some of the vacancies currently being filled by the migrants?

Earl Attlee: My Lords, on my noble friend’s first question: yes, this is one of the benefits of the free movement of labour around the community, so if one country is doing better than another we can get a flow of labour to equalise things. On the second point, on benefit levels, it is not my responsibility to answer for the Home Office on migration issues.

Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab): My Lords, amid all the unpleasantness in parts of the media over the past few weeks about Romanians and Bulgarians, has the noble Earl had the time to see the study recently published by a team from University College London, which shows that immigrants from the EU over the past 10 years have contributed far more in taxes and national insurance contributions than they have consumed in public services and in benefits, unlike the position of the native population? In other words, they have supplied us with a substantial financial and fiscal surplus, to the benefit of every taxpayer in this country. Is there not every probability that hard-working Romanians and Bulgarians will follow in the same footsteps?

Earl Attlee: My Lords, the answer to the noble Lord’s last question is yes. On his first question, I handled business on that particular report. I cannot remember the precise details, but I broadly agree with the noble Lord’s thrust.

Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB): Can the noble Earl confirm my recollection that all three main parties supported the seven-year transition period that expired last week for Romanians and Bulgarians, and gave it wholehearted support when this House and the other place ratified their accession treaties?

Earl Attlee: Again, the noble Lord is right. This is what we signed up to in the accession treaties for these two states. However, we need to stimulate a debate within the community about how best to manage transition in the future.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1391

Baroness Hamwee (LD): My Lords, is my noble friend aware, as I am, of the benefits of free movement enjoyed in the past, now and, I hope, in the future, by British citizens in the EU? Is it not a case of, “Do as you would be done by”?

Earl Attlee: My noble friend is absolutely right. There is two-way traffic, both to and from member states in the EU. There are great benefits from the free movement of labour.

Lord Howell of Guildford (Con): My Lords, would my noble friend remind the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, that when we debated the question of former satellite countries joining the European Union, some of us were considerably less than wholehearted. In fact, we queried whether the figure of 13,000 likely new arrivals was accurate. As it turned out, of course, it was nearer a million than 13,000, so our reservations at that time were fully justified.

Earl Attlee: My noble friend may have been talking about the accession of Poland. A very large number of Poles came to this country. I was talking about Romania and Bulgaria, where we expect that the numbers will not be so large.

Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab): My Lords, the Minister said in his Answer that it was too early to make an assessment of the numbers. However, some of the language from the Government has been quite alarmist rhetoric. Would it not be better to look at measures to stop any workers being exploited, such as stronger and better enforcement of the national minimum wage, and also to tackle those loopholes that allow agency workers, often from overseas, to be employed at much lower rates than home-grown employees?

Earl Attlee: My Lords, I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness. One thing that we have done is to increase very significantly the fixed penalty for employers for not paying the minimum wage. We also need to look at a number of instances where immigrant labour is being abused—for instance, agricultural workers from eastern Europe. The noble Baroness is right; we need to keep a grip on this.

Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB): My Lords, whatever reservations we might or might not have had concerning the expansion of the European Union, will Her Majesty’s Government give an undertaking that unless and until we extricate ourselves from the Union, we will loyally and honourably accept all our legal obligations in respect of it?

Earl Attlee: My Lords, I assure the House that Her Majesty’s Government do have a policy of adhering to treaty obligations. That is why we are very happy with the accession of Romania and Bulgaria to the EU, and with the free movement of those peoples, from 1 January.

Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab): My Lords—

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con): My Lords—

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1392

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con): My Lords, if we can be quick, I think that it is this side.

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: I am grateful to the noble Lord. Am I having an aberration? The opposition Front Bench complained about loopholes introduced by the agency workers scheme. Will my noble friend confirm that the scheme was introduced by the previous Labour Government?

Earl Attlee: My Lords, the noble Lord is right—but, equally, we must close the loopholes and avoid the abuse of low-cost labour from eastern Europe.

Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, if what the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said about the seven-year accession arrangements was correct, why do Mr Cameron and government Ministers go on television and accuse the previous Labour Government of acting irresponsibly?

Earl Attlee: My Lords, it is important to make sure that we have transitional arrangements for future accessions that work properly and do not have undesirable effects, especially when the acceding state has a lower GDP per capita than the rest of the community.

Families: Troubled Families


2.52 pm

Asked by Lord Horam

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress is being made with the Troubled Families Programme.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con): My Lords, this Government’s ambition to turn around the lives of 120,000 troubled families is on track. In November, 18 months into the three- year programme, we announced that more than half the families are being worked with and more than 22,000 have been turned around. This means that children are back in school, levels of youth crime and anti-social behaviour have been significantly reduced, and more than 1,400 adults from some of England’s hardest-to-help households are now in continuous work.

Lord Horam (Con): That is very good news from a very important social programme. Can my noble friend tell me whether she is getting enough mentors on this programme? These are one-to-one relationships—that is the programme’s strength—and we need very good-quality mentors to do that. Secondly, is she getting enough co-operation from local authorities, which are in the driving seat on this?

Baroness Stowell of Beeston: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for raising this important matter. As noble Lords have just heard me say, we define the term “troubled families” by using specific criteria. Often that does not give the true picture of just how entrenched those families are in terms of their dependency

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1393

and how some of them have to deal with violence, drugs and crime in intergenerational families. In the past, lots of agencies have worked with them but got nowhere fast. On the point my noble friend raises, many social workers want to come forward and be the key worker in charge of working with those families. There has been no problem whatever with recruiting for that, and the local authorities have been very proactive in moving forward with this programme. As regards turning those families around, this programme is about reducing their dependency on the state and giving them, and especially their children, the chance of a decent life.

Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab): My Lords, the Troubled Families programme, as it is, is a good programme. But how would it help troubled families to turn their lives around positively if the Government were to cut £25 billion more from public expenditure, of which £12 billion would come from the social security budget?

Baroness Stowell of Beeston: My Lords, when this Government came into office they were committed to the reform of our welfare system, and are, indeed, reforming it. We are also cutting back on some of those levels of payments which we considered unfair. As the noble Lord has just heard me say, we are also helping the most desperate of families so that they, too, have a chance of getting on in life. This Government’s approach is to make sure that we leave no one behind, and that is what we are doing.

Lord German (LD): My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the commitment that we have heard about benefit spend in future is a commitment for a future Government, not for this Government? Does she also agree that the Troubled Families programme, which is doing so well at the moment, acts as a suitable counterbalance to the sanctions regime, which comes from the benefits structure? But of course two separate government departments are involved there. Can she tell the House what arrangements there are for the linkages between local authorities and the DCLG and the DWP and Jobcentre Plus and all the mechanisms of government in that department?

Baroness Stowell of Beeston: The DCLG, the DWP and other departments across Whitehall are working together in an unprecedented manner on the Troubled Families programme. At local authority level, there is fantastic co-operation between local authorities and the DWP. We now have 152 Jobcentre Plus staff plugged in as part of the Troubled Families programme, directly concerned with securing work for the adults in these families.

Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB): My Lords, while accepting the value of the Troubled Families programme, does the Minister not accept that it is really important to get in early when working with families at a preventive level, and that hard-pressed social workers in local authorities find it increasingly difficult to do the work that would stop families falling into the sort of chaos that takes them into the Troubled Families programme?

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1394

Baroness Stowell of Beeston: In this phase of the programme, with regard to the 120,000 families that we are working with and those that we have identified, a lot of problems stem back to earlier generations. Their problems are so entrenched that they go beyond the immediate family that we are focusing on. We have committed to extending this programme; new money is being committed for the next spending round. When we extend the programme, what we have planned to happen, and expect to happen, is to intervene with those families at an earlier stage, to prevent exactly what the noble Baroness has described.

The Lord Bishop of St Albans: My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that there is a considerable body of research and expertise pointing to the vital importance of relationship support in strengthening families? As there are no specific references to family relationships or positive family dynamics in the progress report, will she ask the Troubled Families programme to prioritise such support in the next phase of its work?

Baroness Stowell of Beeston: I understand the point that the right reverend Prelate makes. I can certainly assure him that, in the approach being taken by the programme, the key worker who works with every family is there to address all the fundamental problems that the family experiences—and, if that means relationship issues, that is what they will support that family on.

Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab): My Lords, on the question of departments working together, the Minister will be aware of a parallel DWP programme focused on families with multiple problems. Both programmes fund improvements in employability, crime and anti-social behaviour, among a similar group of people, and both fund similar activities. However, there were separate assessments of need, separate business cases and the programmes were launched within four months of each other without any clear data to show which programme was best suited to addressing which issue. The NAO has pointed out that that led to poor performance and loss of value for money. What are the Government going to do about that?

Baroness Stowell of Beeston: The recent NAO report, as with all NAO reports, is a useful and constructive contribution to how we can extend and build on the work that we are doing. However, as the noble Lord has heard me explain, one measure that we have introduced is to use Jobcentre Plus staff in this programme to address specifically the issue of work, and there is great co-operation between the two departments.

South Sudan


3 pm

Asked by Baroness Cox

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking in response to recent developments in South Sudan.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1395

The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi) (Con): My Lords, the UK is deeply concerned by the terrible violence in South Sudan that began on 15 December 2013. The UK has supported political talks between representatives of President Kiir and former Vice-President Machar. We have provided additional humanitarian assistance on top of our existing commitments to South Sudan and consular support to British nationals.

Baroness Cox (CB): My Lords, I thank the Minister for her comprehensive reply. Does she agree that one of the most disturbing aspects of this tragic situation is Riek Machar’s delaying the peace talks, thereby prolonging the fighting that has killed more than 1,000 people and displaced more than 200,000, who are now living in life-threatening conditions; and that he has a disturbing track record of changing allegiance and of brutality, including responsibility for one of the worst massacres of the previous war? Will Her Majesty’s Government provide all possible support for the African Union and IGAD to promote a political solution as a matter of urgency and press Riek Machar to join President Salva Kiir’s serious commitment to a ceasefire?

Baroness Warsi: My Lords, unfortunately, the fighting continues in South Sudan. As we are in the middle of sensitive negotiations on the substantive issues between the two parties, rather than procedural matters, it would be the wrong time to try to attribute blame. It is clear that both sides have a case to answer for the violence that we have seen over the past few weeks. The UK is engaged in encouraging participation in the peace negotiations led by the Intergovernmental Authority on Development, which is leading the mediation efforts.

Lord Chidgey (LD): My Lords, I think it is generally accepted that the present conflict arises from the power struggle between Riek Machar and Salva Kiir, with scant regard for some 200,000 displaced Sudanese citizens and more than 1,000 killed so far, as the noble Baroness pointed out. What is the Government’s reaction to the call for urgent additional humanitarian aid, not just bringing forward an existing programme but additional aid to help these people in such a desperate situation? With regard to the negotiations that have begun in Addis Ababa, what discussions are the Government, as a member of the CPA troika, having with like-minded parties: for example, Wang Yi, China’s Foreign Minister; Omar al-Bashir, the President of Sudan; and the chair of the AU, Madame Zuma? What discussions are they having with the EU’s representatives to the African Union?

Baroness Warsi: On the humanitarian question, I assure my noble friend that, as regards the £60 million already allocated to South Sudan, the relevant programmes continue. We have allocated an additional £12.5 million specifically to address the current humanitarian emergency. In terms of the support for the political process, he is, of course, familiar with the troika partners. We, the US and Norway have been involved over a number of years in taking forward work in relation to South Sudan. I assure him that the

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1396

Foreign Secretary has been in touch with the Sudanese Foreign Minister, the Ugandan Foreign Minister, the Ethiopian Prime Minister, the Ugandan President and, indeed, with Secretary Kerry on the negotiations. The main challenge was to get representatives of both sides to the table. That has now been achieved. They have met in Addis Ababa from 2 January and, as of today, they have started substantive discussions.

Lord Triesman (Lab): My Lords, this is probably one of the most deeply depressing developments experienced by those of us who have spent time in Juba trying to deal with peace, health and food security issues with President Salva Kiir and his original team. The fact that negotiations are taking place in Addis Ababa is, of course, welcome, if the participants take the process seriously. The United Nations Security Council passing a resolution demanding a ceasefire while the negotiations took place would at least indicate the world’s abhorrence for this violent outbreak. I do not believe that it would impede the African Union’s work at all. Will the United Kingdom and its friends sponsor such a resolution immediately?

Baroness Warsi: The Foreign Secretary has issued a number of statements in which he has called for the violence to stop. As the noble Lord is aware, the United Nations Security Council resolution, which I think was passed on Christmas Eve, was specifically intended to ensure that further troops were put on the ground quickly to try to stop the situation deteriorating. They also strengthened the existing UN mission in South Sudan to support its humanitarian work so that the human rights abuses that were occurring were properly documented to ensure that responsibility follows these acts. The negotiations between the representatives of the two parties are ongoing. We have done a huge amount of work in the background but also in leading these negotiations. The Foreign Office’s political director, Simon Gass, was there throughout the Christmas period, working with the US and his other counterparts. If it is felt that a further UN Security Council resolution is required over and above the statement issued on 30 December, I will certainly take the noble Lord’s views back.

Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB): My Lords, in her written reply to me on 3 January, the Minister said that the unanimous adoption of United Nations Security Council Resolution 2132 authorised a significant increase in the number of troops in the UNMISS force in South Sudan. Can she tell us what the numbers actually are and whether she believes that they will be up to the task of dealing with the situation, which, as we have heard, has led to a displacement of 200,000 people? Does she not also agree that there is a real danger that these events in South Sudan will distract the world from looking at what is happing just over the border in Blue Nile, South Kordofan and Darfur, where the campaign of aerial bombardment by Khartoum goes on as we meet?

Baroness Warsi: The noble Lord, as always, makes an informed and important point. In relation to the UN Security Council resolution, a further five battalions were committed, which amounts to about 5,500 troops.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1397

Three police units were specifically granted, which amounts to about 480 personnel—those are the increased numbers at this stage. The noble Lord makes an important point about regional challenges, but one of the positive features of this current tragedy is how, for example, Ethiopia, Uganda and even Sudan have acted in a much more responsible way. There has certainly been a suggestion that there could be some joint working between Sudan and South Sudan, maybe in relation to keeping the oil flows going.

Water Bill

First Reading

3.07 pm

The Bill was brought from the Commons, read a first time and ordered to be printed.

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Order of Consideration Motion

3.07 pm

Moved by Lord Wallace of Tankerness

That the amendments for the Report stage be marshalled and considered in the following order:

Clauses 1 and 2, Schedule 1, Clause 3, Schedule 2, Clauses 4 to 25, Clauses 36 to 39, Clause 26, Schedule 3, Clauses 27 to 32, Schedule 4, Clauses 33 to 35, Clauses 40 to 44.

Motion agreed.

Social Care Portability Bill [HL]

Motion to Withdraw

3.08 pm

Moved by Baroness Campbell of Surbiton

That the Bill be withdrawn.

Baroness Campbell of Surbiton (CB): My Lords, the contents of the Bill will now be largely achieved.

Motion agreed.

Children and Families Bill

Report (3rd Day)

3.08 pm

Clause 27: Duty to keep education and care provision under review

Amendment 25E

Moved by Baroness Howe of Idlicote

25E: Clause 27, page 23, line 3, at end insert—

“(2A) If the educational and social care provision referred to in subsection (1)(a) and (b) is deemed insufficient to meet the needs of children and young people under subsection (2), a local authority must—

(a) publish these findings;

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1398

(b) involve those consulted under subsection (3) in producing an action plan to revise the educational and social care provision referred to in subsection (1)(a) and (b);

(c) review and report on progress against the action plan; and

(d) revise the local offer accordingly.

(2B) Regulations shall make provision about—

(a) criteria to be used by local authorities in assessing whether the educational and social care provision referred to in subsection (1)(a) and (b) is sufficient under subsection (2);

(b) the information to be included in an authority’s action plan;

(c) how an authority is to involve children, young people and families in the production of, and assessment of progress against, its action plan;

(d) imposing time limits on implementing the revision of the educational and social care provision referred to in subsection (1)(a) and (b) that has been deemed insufficient under subsection (2A).”

Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB): My Lords, I start by re-emphasising a point that I made in Committee: that accountability is the most important aspect of the local offer, an offer that will be relied on by 1.5 million children with special educational needs. Without strong accountability mechanisms, families will have no way of ensuring that the services they need are available and it is likely that parents will continue to need to push for a statement or an EHC plan to get the support that they and their child need.

Clause 30 states that a local authority must publish comments from children with SEN and their parents about its local offer, as well as the authority’s response to those comments. I am pleased that the Government have strengthened this further with Amendment 33C, requiring local authorities to publish what action they intend to take in response to comments from parents about the local offer. However, I and, indeed, the Special Educational Consortium, which is backing this amendment, have serious concerns that the Government’s Amendment 33C has been placed in the wrong clause and will therefore fail to have its desired effect. Clause 30 refers to the local offer only as a source of information and advice and not to the provision contained in the offer, and therefore the impact of the Government’s very welcome amendment will be felt only in terms of the quality of information and advice. It is Clause 27, relating to reviewing education and care provision, that must be amended. Will the Government therefore commit to moving Amendment 33C to Clause 27 to ensure that improvements to local services are made? If they commit to doing so, this will make a huge difference and go a long way to reducing the battles that parents face. However, I fear that it will still not go far enough in ensuring that local authorities are held to account and that essential improvements to local services are made.

Amendment 25E to Clause 27 would require a local authority, after publishing comments on the local offer, to involve parents and young people in producing an action plan to revise the education and care provision outlined in the local offer, review and report on progress against its action plan and then revise the local offer accordingly, ensuring that local support was sufficient to meet local needs. This would ensure that local

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1399

authorities and parents, along with other parties including school governors and children’s centres, worked together at the earliest possible stage to ensure that local provision was the best it could be, bringing about exactly the cultural change that the Government want to see. This is a vital addition to the Bill.

My key question to the Government is: exactly who will check that local authorities do what they promise to do when publishing their response and the actions they intend to take following parents’ comments about the local offer? My amendment would ensure that local authorities not only work with parents and other interested parties to develop an action plan to improve service provision in the local offer but review and report on progress against their action plans. This is exactly the robust accountability measure that will ensure that local support is responsive to local needs—something that the Government have said time and again they wish to see. At the very least, can the Government confirm that the code of practice will include further information relating to the action that local authorities will take in response to parents’ comments about the local offer so that parents and other interested parties, listed in Clause 27(3), will be involved in drawing up an action plan to improve the local offer along with the necessary mechanisms for reviewing and reporting on progress against such an action plan? I beg to move.

3.15 pm

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab): My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 30 and 31 standing in my name and in the name of my noble friend Lady Hughes of Stretford and also to Amendment 33D standing in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Low, to which my noble friend Lady Hughes of Stretford has added her name. We also add our support to the amendment proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, and to the arguments she eloquently made in proposing it. There is a compelling case for local authorities to be expected to take action where education and care provision is judged to be insufficient and it is important that we have adequate means to address that.

Our amendments relate to Clause 30, which introduces the concept of the local offer and places a duty on local authorities to publish the local offer for children and young people with special educational needs, to keep it under review and to revise it periodically. Obviously, we welcome the principle of the local offer, as does most of the sector, but our concern is to make the local offer tangible, accessible and responsive. One concern which our amendments seek to address is that the wording of subsection (1)(a) requires the local authority to set out in the local offer only what it “expects to be available”. We believe that this wording is ambiguous and could be used by local authorities to duck out of their responsibilities to deliver a quality package of services.

Parents, children and young people have expectations that the local offer will be an improvement on what has gone before, but, understandably, they want a more formal understanding with the local authority about the service that they can rely on being provided. Many parents have spent their lives fighting for basic

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1400

support for their children and are naturally suspicious of wish lists. We believe that our amendments to replace “expects to be available” with “which is available” will give those parents the added guarantees they desperately need.

When this was discussed in Grand Committee the Minister said:

“The local offer should enable local people to see what services are available, how they can be accessed, who provides them and where to go if things do not work out”.—[Official Report, 30/10/13; col. GC 612.]

We agree with that statement. That is what we are all trying to achieve and we believe that our wording is a better reflection of this aspiration than the current wording in the Bill. In Grand Committee the Minister also made the point that families need to be informed about,

“what provision the local authority expects to become available in the near future, possibly from new innovative practices”.—[

Official Report

, 30/10/13; col. GC 613.]

We very much welcome a culture of innovation in this sector and families will, of course, be interested in being kept informed of newly developing services. This should all be part of a greater commitment to information sharing and dialogue between families and the local authority. However, information about innovation and good practice is very different from the function of the local offer, which should be about what is available to families and what they can access now with some degree of certainty.

The Minister also drew our attention to the draft code of practice, where more detail is provided. Again, it is useful to have this additional information for parents. However, it does not answer our central concern about the status of the local offer and the extent to which it can be relied on. In fact, while the draft code of practice contains good supplementary guidance, it continues to use the phrase that the local authority should provide information about services which it “expects to be available”. Also, as we have debated before, it is important to have the fundamental principles set out in the Bill and we believe that this is a key feature which will give parents, children and young people confidence in services for the future. This is more than an argument about semantics. Our amendment will help to make the local offer a real, living commitment that will help to make the new proposals a success.

My noble friend Lady Hughes of Stretford has also added her name to Amendment 33D standing in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Low, who, I am sure, will speak on it shortly. The amendment seeks to give families confidence in the quality of the local offer by requiring the Secretary of State to lay regulations specifying the standards and quality of education, health and social care provision which local authorities must meet. These regulations would need to be approved by both Houses. In addition, it would require the Secretary of State to issue guidance on how to meet the regulations and publish information on the regulations on the department’s website. The amendment addresses the continuing concern in the sector that services across the UK will be patchy and that a postcode lottery of services will develop. Without the amendment, families will be at the mercy of local authority budgets, with all the uncertainty of provision that already occurs as a result of budget cuts, and so what starts

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1401

out as a promising new regime of integrated services may quickly descend into a fight to retain any kind of minimum provision. There is the added challenge that there is little incentive for local authorities to develop high-quality provision as it will simply attract clients from other areas, letting the poorer providers off the hook.

Our amendment also addresses the knowledge gap that arises from Clause 21(1)(a), which defines SEN provision in a local area as being relative to all mainstream schools in England. However, without minimum national standards, all a local authority can do is define the offer relative to its own local provision. When we debated this issue in Grand Committee we explored whether setting minimum standards of provision might be the answer, but we accept the limitations of this solution, which is the danger that minimum standards might become the norm. Therefore, our new amendment seeks to address this problem in a different way, allowing scope for services to be different around the UK to meet local and individual needs but nevertheless requiring that they meet overall quality standard benchmarks.

These standards could provide the framework for the Ofsted and CQC inspections currently being considered by the Government and would build on the recommendations of the Ofsted study into how this can be delivered most effectively which is currently taking place. Perhaps the Minister can update us on progress in developing this suggested framework of standards. They would also be a measure against which parents could judge the acceptability of local services if they wish to challenge the provision or ultimately appeal. Therefore, this amendment is the final piece of the jigsaw which will give parents confidence in the new provision and guarantee the success of the new regime, the principles of which, as I have said, we all support.

Finally, I would like to say a few words on the government amendment in this group. In Grand Committee we raised the concern, shared by many, that the obligation on local authorities to publish comments on the local offer from parents, children and young people did not sufficiently hold them to account or require them to be responsive to the views expressed. Giving a more powerful voice to those, often isolated, individuals struggling to access services ought to be at the heart of these improvements. That is why we welcome the government amendment, which would require local authorities to publish the action they intend to take in response to the comments received. However, picking up on the theme of the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, there is a further stage to be addressed if we are serious about making change, which is that the local authority should also be required to work with those who have been consulted to produce an action plan to address any identified failings.

It would be helpful if the Minister could explain how this additional challenge will be addressed. It may be that the requirements could be included in the regulations, but we need to be assured before we make a final decision today that the Government are addressing this issue and the concerns raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Howe.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1402

Lord Low of Dalston (CB): My Lords, I support the amendment of my noble friend Lady Howe.

I welcome the Government’s Amendment 33C, which would require local authorities to publish what action they intend to take following parents’ comments about the local offer. However, I am keen to know from the Minister what mechanisms will be in place to ensure that parents have a key role in shaping what this action to be taken by local authorities will be. The Government have consistently and rightly stated that the local offer should be responsive to local needs. Unless the Government accept the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, to ensure that parents and young people are joint partners in developing an action plan to improve local provision, is there not a danger that the local offer will be responsive only to the needs of local authorities and not local families? While welcoming the Government’s amendment and supporting the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, I would just ask the Minister those two questions. The second of them is really about how the Minister proposes to respond to the points that the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, has made.

I will speak mainly to my own amendment in this group, Amendment 33D, which would require the Secretary of State to make,

“regulations setting out the standards and quality of the special educational provision, health care provision and social care provision which local authorities must meet in their local offer … issue guidance to local authorities on how to meet these regulations, and … publish information on these regulations accessible to the families of children and young people with special educational needs”.

I will speak fairly briefly because we had two long debates in Grand Committee and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, has just spoken very eloquently to this amendment. I am very grateful to her for that—she made a very good argument for the case being put forward by the amendment.

As I said, we had a couple of very good debates in Grand Committee on the provisions of the Bill relating to the local offer. I moved an amendment which sparked a discussion about the kind of framework which needed to be put in place to regulate the local offers that local authorities made, to ensure that they met certain standards of consistency. The amendment took its cue from the animating principle underlying much of the legislation emanating from the Support and Aspiration Green Paper, which was that parents of children with special educational needs needed to be freed from the tangles of bureaucracy that were making it so difficult to access the services which could best meet their children’s needs. The amendment was couched in terms of the minimum standards which local authorities must meet in their local offers. The flaw in such an amendment was quickly pointed out: it could all too easily lead to local authorities simply working to the bare minimum and usher in a race to the bottom. At the same time, it provoked a bit of reaction from noble Lords who had a history in local government, who were at pains to point to all the good work local authorities do, the undesirability of constraining their room for manoeuvre too much and the need to leave them alone to get on with things. I was at pains to be conciliatory and to acknowledge that in my reply but, on reflection, I think I may have gone a bit too far.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1403

The underlying thrust behind this legislation is the need to free families from the bureaucracy which ties them in knots and to redress the balance between local authorities and families attempting to assert their rights. I remember the noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Yardley, making the point very persuasively that, although one did not want to hamstring local authorities and unduly constrain them in what they can do, it was not wise to set up a completely new system like this without exercising a measure of central oversight. That is a very familiar distribution of responsibilities between central and local government and the education service.

My amendment is not unduly prescriptive in dictating to the Secretary of State what he must do; it merely requires that he make regulations setting out, as I have said, the standards and quality of the special educational provision, health care provision and social care provision which local authorities must meet in their local offer, issue guidance to local authorities on how to comply with these regulations and publish information on the regulations accessible to the families of children and young people with special educational needs. This is a very moderate obligation to lay on the Secretary of State and, depending on what the Minister says, I reserve the right to seek the opinion of the House when my amendment comes up as we go through the Bill.

3.30 pm

Baroness Eaton (Con): My Lords, I can understand why the noble Lord, Lord Low, tabled Amendment 33D, which would regulate the special education provision to be provided by local authorities. That sounds sensible and reassuring. However, the practicalities of regulating provision in such a way would, despite what has been said in the contributions from noble Lords, cause unnecessary restrictions on provision and prevent innovation and creativity that could bring about new and supportive services.

The duties on local authorities and other bodies to assess needs and secure provision are already set out elsewhere in the Bill. There are already some excellent examples of local offers—for example the pathfinders in North Yorkshire that worked with parents and young people to produce an interactive map and colour-coded diagram, including a version for children and young people, showing precisely what the local offer would be.

Funding allocated to councils by the Government for education, including SEN provision, can vary greatly, even for similar or neighbouring local authorities. That is one reason why provision may vary between areas. We know that the new national funding formula will not be introduced until after the next election. SEN provision also varies from one local authority to another because of the nature of the population. There are higher levels of need in some areas, which require the local authority to provide more specialist services than in others areas that may have no such requirements or quite different needs.

Defining in law a minimum level of provision may actually mean that resources in some authorities are diverted from other areas of special need simply to meet a legal requirement. Health needs also differ between

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1404

local areas. That is reflected in the local joint strategic needs assessment, which is based on the needs of the local population. Surely the key purpose of the local SEN offer should remain as a source of information to parents and young people, developed by local authorities working with them to reflect their choices and preferences.

Lord Storey (LD): My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, that parents have fought for years to get resources and what some might call justice for children with special educational needs. That is why the Bill is so important: it is a progressive piece of legislation that we can all be proud of. It will mean that, for the first time, local authorities have to spell out clearly and precisely what is available in their area and how that can be accessed. As we know, people with special educational needs will, for the first time, have a plan that joins up health, education and social care.

The giveaway is in the title: “local offer”. It is not a national offer but a local one. I suppose the Government could have said, “Nationally, we have decided that this is what you will do”, but I am quite sure that there would have been screams from local authorities that this was national government again dictating exactly what should happen. The local offer is important.

I was grateful for the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Low, in Committee but I still have grave concerns about creating a minimum requirement. We have seen what happened in care for the elderly: if you have a minimum requirement, councils under financial pressures jettison what they do not need to provide. If you have a minimum offer in terms of special educational needs, you will find that those authorities that my noble friend Lady Eaton so eloquently described, the ones that are progressive and look at new ideas, will say, “Well, if there are some savings to be made, we do not need to do that”. So I am not in favour of a minimum offer.

I am in favour of what the Government have reflected on and come back to at Report with Amendment 33C. Let us never underestimate the power of local people. If the local offer is not meeting the local requirement, you can bet that local people will say that they want something extra. Cases will make that happen. That is why the government amendment is so important. Let us celebrate where we are at so far, because it is important for children with special educational needs.

Baroness Morris of Yardley (Lab): My Lords, I support the amendments and, in particular, will comment on Amendments 30, 31, and 33D.

The amendments tabled by my noble friend Lady Jones, which deal with the “expects to be” versus “which is” dilemma, just make sense, as I do not think that anyone here would not want parents to know what is being offered rather than what might be offered. The Government’s concern appears to be that something innovative might happen during the year that could be added to the offer, but the Minister might reflect that, if the offer was a living document so that it could be updated as an innovation came through, was proven to work, accepted as best practice and added to the

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1405

local provision, in a digital age it would not be difficult to update the offer. The notion of “which is” gives far more certainty to users of the service than the words “expect to be”. In that respect, I very much support those amendments.

I just want to comment on the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Low. I see both sides of this argument. We want local authorities to be free to innovate, to reach for the stars and to be the best they can, and we do not want the local offer in every local authority area to look exactly the same regardless of where you are in the country. Neither do we want to give permission to local authorities to go for a basic minimum standard. I accept the concerns laid out by the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, and the noble Lord, Lord Storey, but we are still left with a problem.

The code of practice talks a lot about the quantity that should be in the local offer. There is a whole list of things that the code of practice guarantees will be there. What is missing from the whole debate is something that guarantees quality. Amendment 33D attempts to do that, and I want the Minister to respond to it. None of us wants poor quality, and I do not think that we would be in politics and would certainly not be legislators if we did not know that we have to ensure quality. It does not happen by itself or through a free-for-all, and it will not happen if we just leave it to local authorities to do their best. We want more than that. Minimum standards are not in the amendment. I do not want to fetter those local authorities who will provide very well; I want to protect those people who live in areas where the local authority does not do very well. I am concerned about how we protect people against poor provision falling below those minimum standards.

Normally, government takes one of three actions. It leaves it to the market—the noble Lord, Lord Storey, mentioned just now that if people do not like it, they will complain and changes will be made. I do not think that that will happen with the local offer. The only way that the market usually works is if people are free to go elsewhere. Then the poor provision that they did not want withers on the vine, vanishes, closes down and gets off the playing field. That is not what we want here. We do not want a local offer to be squeezed out of the market so that people have to go over the local authority borders. I cannot see how the market works as a regulator of standards for the local offer.

Secondly, we inspect. That is another way to guarantee quality. I would be grateful if the Minister would give us an update on where the department is with Ofsted inspecting the local offer. In Committee, he undertook to write to me, and I must admit that I am not sure whether that letter has been sent; I have not seen it. I would accept it if the Government have decided to inspect the local offer to make sure that people are protected against poor provision.

If they do not want to do that, the next action is regulation. Amendment 33D, as tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Low, would put in regulation to protect people against poor standards. It really does not matter whether it is inspection or regulation—but I do not want it to be the market, which I think is where the Government are headed with this, because that will not work. We have to get the balance right between

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1406

protecting people in areas where a local authority does not deliver the goods and leaving local authorities that are good, free to excel.

This is not just about safeguarding against low-quality provision: the Government should, equally, be incentivising innovation and high standards. If you only dampen down by inspecting, you will not get the high standards and innovation to which the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, referred. We have had so many decades of experience in the delivery of public services, and there are good ways of incentivising innovation, rewarding high standards and making sure that those high standards are spread to include everyone else. That is my ideal— to do both. I think that we will see the good quality provision in the local offer to which the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, referred, and that we will find ways of making sure that other local authorities know about it. Equally, for balance, we need something to set a basic standard below which local authorities’ local offer should not fall so that as regulators and legislators we can say that everybody, no matter where they live, is protected from a poor standard of provision. In that respect, I very much support the amendments that we are considering in this group.

Baroness Wilkins (Lab): My Lords, I, too, support all the amendments in this group. If the Bill really is to improve the position of families of children with SEN in their struggle to give their children the best start in life then it must provide some certainty. Assurances of the provision which a local authority expects to be available are useless if they turn out to be just warm words. Parents need to know what is available, and families must know that there is a benchmark below which standards are not allowed to fall.

Let us not forget that the vast majority of people who find themselves as the parent of a disabled child will have no previous knowledge of the world of special educational need. They will not know what services that their child might need should be available and will have no knowledge of the structure of provision or the standards that they should expect. They will have to learn all of this at a time of great stress and amid all the other demands of family and work life. On Amendment 25E, I particularly support the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, on the importance of accountability regarding the local offer. As the Education Select Committee said, the importance of the local offer cannot be overestimated.

Given that Clause 30 relates to the local offer as an information offer and not to the actual provision contained in it, can the Minister explain exactly how local authorities will publish their response and what action they intend to take following parents’ comments about the local offer? How will that actually lead to improvements to the services being made? Unless the Minister agrees to move the Government’s Amendment 33C to Clause 27, what do the Government expect local authorities to do with comments from parents about service provision? Is there anything in the Bill to ensure that these comments will be fed into the review of service provision referred to in Clause 27? Moreover, will local authorities clearly explain to parents that they can comment on the local offer only as a source of information and not the provision itself?

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1407

As the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, stated, the local offer will be relied upon by 1.4 million children with SEN, namely those without a statement or an EHC plan. Can the Minister therefore clarify, if the child does not have a plan and a local authority publishes a response and follow-up action which was unsatisfactory to parents, are there any further mechanisms in place to ensure that parents’ concerns are addressed?

By the Government’s own figures, the total cost to the taxpayer of parents taking cases to an SEN tribunal is more than £30 million a year. Given this substantial cost, is it not imperative that disputes between parents and local authorities are resolved at the earliest possible opportunity? Amendment 25E, which requires parents, local authorities and others to work together and develop an action plan, would enable this to happen, and I urge the Government to accept it.

3.45 pm

Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con): My Lords, I can imagine myself as a parent of a child with special educational needs; I have listened to the debate trying to put myself into that person’s shoes. I can imagine taking my child along to discuss with the local education authority what provision could be made and being told, “I am sorry that you may want this, that and the other, and your child may have that particular set of needs, but we’re meeting the minimum standards set down. They do not happen to suit your child, but I’m afraid they are all that we can afford”.

My noble friends Lady Eaton and Lord Storey passionately described the dangers of minimum standards and the stifling of any innovation or adaptability to the local needs of parents and their children. They also described the danger of saying, when money is tight, “We are sorry we can’t help those other parents and children, but we are meeting the minimum standards. That is the regulation, so that is all there is”. You do not encourage response to people’s needs or collaboration between a local authority and the parents and children in its region by regulation and by national minimum standards. You encourage it by leaving local authorities and parents free to talk together.

I note that the Bill carefully states that the comments received from parents and from the local community must be published every year. That is a strong system of accountability, and is much better than trotting out a bit of inspection from time to time and issuing that report. To coin a phrase, it seems a triple lock if parents’ comments about the provision that they receive from the local education authority, with their own deep and often tragic experience of children with special educational needs, must be published in a form that all can see. Local authorities will be required to respond to local needs, and it gets us away from this dreadful idea: “A minimum standard is all that we can afford and therefore, even if it does not suit your child, that is all that you will get”.

Baroness Sharp of Guildford (LD): My Lords, I return to the introduction that the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, gave to Amendment 25E and the issue of accountability. Government Amendment 33C is good so far as it goes, but it puts the onus on parents and

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1408

young people using the service to police the sufficiency of the local offer. Perhaps my noble friend the Minister could correct me if I were wrong, but so far as I know there is no obligation on local authorities to publish the findings of their own reviews, which, as was emphasised by the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, they are obliged to make under Clause 27. Therefore, there is not the obligation to proactively improve their services that might arise from looking at whether their own reviews were sufficient, and acting on that. That picks up the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, that there are ways and means whereby innovation comes organically and internally. Equally, she made the point that for most parents there is not the opportunity to move authorities: whether they like it or no, this is the authority that they have to work with.

Again, I pick up the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, that, when we are talking about special educational needs, we do not mean only the few who have statements and will have the EHC plans now—about 3% of pupils. Something like 15% of pupils are regarded as having special educational needs and are treated under school action and school action plus.

It is now the schools’ responsibility to meet the needs of these pupils. We shall be talking later about the training that is necessary for SENCOs, and so forth. Most schools rely very much indeed on local educational specialists being available. One of the problems with the situation at the moment is that if there is no follow-up on whether or not there is a sufficiency of provision, there is a great danger that local authorities, whose finances, as we know, are being squeezed at present, will not find it necessary to provide outside the needs of those who actually have EHC plans, and that specialists in language, communication and behaviour will not be available to schools for them to be able to recruit to help them with the problems that they meet.

So I am somewhat concerned. As I say, the government amendment is good so far as it goes, but it is unfortunate that it does not follow through to requiring action on the reviews that the local authorities themselves have to make of their own provision.

Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB): My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, in what she was saying. I was rather taken by the government amendment because of its involvement of parents, children and young people themselves, but I could not see the follow-through. What we are looking for is an interrelationship between the legislation, the code and how it is applied and then how that is reported back, so that you have a virtuous circle and you can measure against what you are attempting to do.

In order to do that, you have to have absolute transparency. That is why I am also concerned about the phrase,

“it expects to be available”.

Unless families know with absolute clarity what is available and have some idea of what the local authority might be planning to make available—that might be what the “expects” is trying to achieve—how can they be engaged in a debate with the local authority in some sort of forum to move things forward in an innovative way? Being involved in two charities that

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1409

work nationally, I know how very different the provision is across the country, but I still have grave anxieties about setting minimum standards, having also worked in a local authority that was strapped for cash in the 1970s, where we looked for any area of legislation where we could move back and save money. At this time, as I have said several times in this debate, we have to be absolutely open with families about what is and is not available. It is only if they are absolutely clear about that within the constraints of the finances that are available that they will be able to campaign, if you like, for an alternative that would better meet their needs. I encourage the Minister to look again at the phrase, “expects to be available”.

I find it far more difficult to know how I would vote on any of the other amendments, recognising the sheer complexity of the discussion that we have been having. I happen to have more faith in local authorities, and believe that if they have the opportunity and the resource they will do their best for the people that they want to serve.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con): My Lords, this is our first opportunity after the Recess to consider Part 3 of the Children and Families Bill. This is a good time to reflect on how far we have come in taking forward our shared ambition of a new framework for supporting children, young people and their parents—one that raises aspirations, improves outcomes and enables young people to prepare successfully for adult life.

On 17 December, the House passed a number of government amendments responding to important issues raised by noble Lords in Committee. These amendments will include disabled children and young people without SEN in key provisions of the Bill and ensure that local authorities exercise their functions with a view to securing that they identify both children and young people with SEN and disabled children and young people, and that health bodies inform the child’s parents and local authority where they are of the opinion that a child under compulsory school age has or probably has a disability. Local authorities will exercise their functions with a view to ensuring the integration of education and training provision with healthcare provision and social care provision for children and young people with SEN and disabled children and young people where they think this would promote their well-being, including in relation to their participation in education, training and recreation. Local authorities and their partner commissioning bodies making joint arrangements for the commissioning of education, health and care provision for children and young people with SEN will be amended to include disabled children and young people. Local authorities will keep under review all the education and training provision and social care provision for disabled children and young people and consult disabled children and young people and their parents when doing so. Local authorities will arrange for disabled young people and the parents of disabled children to be provided with information about matters related to disability—I have also tabled an amendment, which we shall come to later, to extend the requirement to cover children themselves as well as their parents—and local authorities will include disabled children and

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1410

young people both in relation to the information to be published and in developing and reviewing the local offer and in publishing comments.

The definition of disability applied in relation to these government amendments is that in the Equality Act 2010. Since I have already given an undertaking to strengthen the links to the Equality Act duties in the SEN code of practice, they will sharpen the focus on those duties considerably. The code of practice is, of course, statutory and the guidance it provides cannot be ignored.

These changes followed a government amendment in Committee requiring schools to make arrangements for supporting children with medical needs, including children with long-term medical conditions, about whom noble Lords had particular concerns. These changes have improved the Bill and will improve provision for children, young people and families.

We have now had an interesting debate on accountability for services and the local offer. It is an important issue, and one on which a range of views was expressed in Grand Committee. I would like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Low, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Howe, Lady Hughes, and Lady Jones, for their contribution today and for bringing their experience into this debate.

I think it is important at the outset to reflect for a moment on the purposes of the local offer and on how the provisions in the Bill, the draft regulations and the draft SEN code of practice have been developed. The Lamb inquiry highlighted the need for parents to have clearer information about the support available and how decisions are made. Brian Lamb was clear that greater clarity and transparency reduces conflict and builds trust. That is why the SEN Green Paper proposed the local offer.

Since the Green Paper, we have worked with our local pathfinders and others to develop the statutory framework for the local offer. From this work, we know that local services will be much more responsive to local needs if local offers are developed with children and young people and their parents. This is precisely what we provide for in the Bill.

I appreciate the concerns that have prompted Amendment 25E, which was tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, on the review of education and care provision. I understand why she is seeking the publication of an action plan if the education and social care is deemed insufficient. I also understand her wish to ensure that local authorities address any shortcomings, but I think that Clause 30 rather than Clause 27 is the right place to address these issues, and I will say more about this shortly.

The provisions in the Bill will ensure that children and young people with SEN and disabled children and young people and the parents of children with SEN and disabilities are involved in improving provision where it is insufficient. Local authorities must consult and involve them when reviewing local provision, but I believe that the detailed mechanics of how local authorities work with local people and those providing services for them to improve provision are best left to the local authority—I take the point the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, has just made—if we are really to secure services that are responsive to local needs.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1411

As many noble Lords have mentioned, there is a government amendment in this group—Amendment 33C —which I would now like to explain. Local authorities must publish comments from children and young people with SEN and disabilities and parents of children with SEN and disabilities about the local offer, including comments about the quality of the provision available and about any provision that is not available. We make it clear in the draft SEN code that when local authorities publish their response to comments they should include the action local authorities propose to take. However, in view of the concerns raised in Committee I have tabled Amendment 33C to make this explicit in the Bill.

This amendment will add a requirement to Clause 30(6) to make it absolutely clear that local authorities cannot simply publish their response to comments but then ignore them. They must say what action they intend to take. This will provide even greater transparency and help to improve local accountability. As with every other part of the development of the local offer, children, young people and parents will be involved in discussions with local authorities about the action they propose to take.

4 pm

The noble Baroness, Lady Howe, asked whether Clause 30 was the right place, as opposed to Clause 27. Clause 27 is only about reviewing provisions and consulting people whereas Clause 30 provides the impetus to reflect provision in a local offer and to shape it in response to the views of children, young people and parents. As I have said, we feel that substantive engagement with children, young people and parents is the way to do this. However, we would be happy to make stronger links in the SEN code of practice between the review duty in Clause 27 and Clause 30 on the local offer. In answer to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Low, I can also confirm that we expect local authorities to develop their action plans with parents, children and young people, and we will make that clear in the code of practice.

Many noble Lords have spoken to Amendments 30 and 31. I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Hughes and Lady Jones, for tabling these amendments and for giving us the opportunity to consider further the aims of the local offer. Our aim in requiring local authorities to publish the provision they expect to be available in and outside their local area is to make the local offer as relevant and useful to families as possible. It will not be so informative if it can only set out what is already available rather than what is expected to be available. If, for example, a new specialist provision was due to open in an area, it would be useful for parents and young people to know about that in advance. We would not wish to restrict local authorities to including this facility in the local offer only once it had already opened.

Often, the things that are most important to parents are provided by small voluntary sector groups or informal arrangements such as a trampoline club on a Saturday morning for a child with autism, a local club providing activities for disabled children and their siblings or a circle of friends group for disabled young people set up by local young people. The services may

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1412

be expected to be available, but this cannot be guaranteed. Requiring local authorities to publish only what is available may deter them from including such provision in the first place and children and young people will miss out on valuable opportunities.

I assure noble Lords that we intend the local offer to be robust and it was always intended that it would cover what is available. We want parents and young people to have confidence in the information it contains. In answer to the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, and other noble Lords, for the avoidance of any doubt we will amend the SEN code of practice to make it clear that the duty on the local authority to set out what it “expects” to be available is not about what the local authority would like to be available but what it expects actually will be.

Many noble Lords have spoken to Amendment 33D on quality standards for the local offer. I firmly believe that further prescription of additional legal duties and setting national quality standards in law would mean central government deciding what is best rather than local parents, children and young people, and that this would critically undermine the value of the local offer. Since the proposal for a local offer was prompted by the Lamb inquiry it might be helpful to reflect on Brian Lamb’s views. He said:

“I would be very reluctant to create a legal duty to provide whatever is included in the local offer. What you would get is very defensive practice from local authorities. They will be so cautious about what is included and the local offer will be stripped back to the absolute minimum they can commit to and avoid legal challenge. The local offer will become worthless and you’ll lose the prize of collaboration and openness with parents that it’s trying to secure”.

Brian Lamb’s view is that real change comes when local authorities engage fully with children, young people and parents. We share that view; we have seen it in operation in the pilots. That is why we will be looking for evidence of such engagement in the information we receive from local authorities on their approach to the reforms. We will also look at how we might strengthen the code of practice further in this regard.

We have already set out a clear common framework for the local offer in the Bill, particularly the draft regulations and the draft code of practice. This will ensure consistency across local authorities. We heard from my noble friend Lady Eaton and the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, in Committee and again today, and today from my noble friend Lady Perry and the noble Lord, Lord Storey. All stressed the dangers of a minimum-standards approach and urged us to resist the temptation to place further prescription on local authorities. I agree with them and I am clear that doing so would work against openness and collaboration, and stifle creativity.

I understand why the noble Lord, Lord Low, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, have tabled Amendment 33D seeking regulations prescribing quality standards for the provision in the local offer. However, it is difficult to see how quality standards could be developed for the local offer since it will contain a wide range of services and support provided by a wide range of local providers, including not only local authorities but organisations from across the statutory and voluntary sectors. How would any standards be

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1413

meaningful without covering the full range of provision and without taking account of local views, local needs and local circumstances? There are fundamental differences between institutions regulated by statute, such as children’s homes, where it is necessary to set standards of care for children and young people to which all institutions must adhere, and the wide range of services to be embraced by the local offer from schools and colleges to small local voluntary-sector groups. We do not believe that standards—minimum or quality standards—are feasible for, or consistent with, the purposes of the local offer, which are to provide children, young people and parents with easy access to information about provision, and the opportunity to be directly involved in shaping that provision.

It is also important to remember that many services in the local offer will already have statutory duties and be subject to statutory regulation—for example, schools, including non-maintained special schools and independent schools. Standards of one kind or another will also be in place for other areas such as fostering. It would not make sense to overlay existing arrangements with national prescription through the local offer. Instead, we want to encourage local engagement and innovation.

In our local pathfinders, the freedom to innovate is already paying dividends. The SE7 pathfinder developed its local offer specifically to answer the questions local parents and young people want to have answered, not to fit a predetermined regime imposed by the Government. As my noble friend Lady Eaton mentioned, North Yorkshire has been developing an interactive site map for the local offer, to improve access to information about available support in a simple and direct way that responds to local views. Leicester, through its parent carer forum, Big Mouth Forum, has set up pop-up shops in local shopping centres for families and young people to access useful information and ask questions about the local offer. This has also allowed Leicester City and the Big Mouth Forum to gather valuable feedback to inform continued development of their local offer. When I visited the pathfinder at Greenwich, Cherry Orchard School gave a presentation on how the local authority had worked directly with local schools from the outset to set out a clear school offer. There is a real sense of shared objectives, joint ownership and co-operation in these examples. We want to encourage this to flourish, not to overburden local agencies with further regulation.

At an open meeting for Peers with some of the pathfinders before Committee, noble Lords heard how, by working directly with parents and across education, health and social care provision had been developed that better met children’s and young people’s needs and was more cost effective, making the most of resources. If we had a tick-box approach to the local offer we would lose this collaboration and creativity, and families and children would lose out.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, asked for more information on the Ofsted study. The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, was quite right that when I wrote to Peers about SEN issues following Committee, I promised more detail on the study. Although we will come to that in more detail in a later group, I will give an update now. The Ofsted study will focus on the extent

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1414

to which local areas ensure that children and young people with SEN and those who are disabled are identified and their needs met. It will look for improved outcomes, and at the satisfaction of parents and young people. It will establish a baseline from which to evaluate progress in implementing the reforms; provide guidance to local authorities about the development of effective practice and advice about aspects requiring further development; and consider how, if required, effective accountability could take place.

The study will consider how local authorities identify and assess social care needs and will ensure that those needs are met. It will look at how local authorities work with clinical commissioning groups to identify and commission the range and sufficiency of specialist services required to support the needs of children with and without EHC plans, and will evaluate the effectiveness of these services. It will also consider arrangements for personal budgets, transition to EHC plans, and how school and college inspection and other inspection activity could provide ongoing information about the effectiveness of the local area’s arrangements. This will be a comprehensive study. Should Ofsted recommend that an inspection framework is needed we would, of course, take that very seriously. If it does not make such a recommendation, we will consider what further action is necessary.

The noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins, asked about local authorities publishing their responses. The Bill requires local authorities to publish comments about their local offer so that parents and others can see whether their views have been taken into account. We will say more on that in the SEN code of practice, but we still do not wish to be too prescriptive.

I hope that I have been able to reassure noble Lords that appropriate measures to improve transparency and accountability for the local offer will be established by the provisions in Clause 30, the common framework created by the regulations and the guidance in the code of practice. Just as amendments made earlier on Report have improved the Bill, government Amendment 33C will help to reinforce accountability and encourage provision that responds to local needs by ensuring that local authorities make it clear what action they intend to take in response to comments from children, young people and parents. In view of what I have said today I urge noble Lords not to press their amendments.

Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, first, I thank everyone who took part in this extremely interesting debate. It was at least as interesting as the debate on these subjects in Committee. I should have said at an earlier stage that I had a lot of sympathy with the other amendments in this group, and still do. On my own amendment, I have to admit that I am rather sorry that the Minister does not think that agreeing my amendment to Clause 27 would be a good thing, not least because that would give a lot of authority to the accountability of parents, who could see that what had been agreed between them and their local authority in the discussions they had had would be provided to a high standard. My own amendment was rather more probing, even at this stage, so I shall not take it further. However, if other Members who have spoken to their amendments in this group wish to press them

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1415

to a Division, I would have considerable sympathy with what would be proposed. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 25E withdrawn.

4.15 pm

Amendments 25F to 25K

Moved by Lord Nash

25F: Clause 27, page 23, line 5, leave out paragraph (a) and insert—

“( ) children and young people in its area with special educational needs, and the parents of children in its area with special educational needs;

( ) children and young people in its area who have a disability, and the parents of children in its area who have a disability;”

25G: Clause 27, page 23, line 17, after “by” insert “—

(i) ”

25H: Clause 27, page 23, line 18, at end insert “, or

(ii) children or young people in its area who have a disability”

25J: Clause 27, page 23, line 20, after “to” insert “—

(i) ”

25K: Clause 27, page 23, line 20, at end insert “, or

(ii) children or young people in its area who have a disability”

Amendments 25F to 25K agreed.

Amendment 26 not moved.

Clause 28: Co-operating generally: local authority functions

Amendment 27 not moved.

Amendment 27A

Moved by Lord Nash

27A: Clause 28, page 24, line 16, at end insert—

“( ) a person in charge of relevant youth accommodation—

(i) in which there are detained persons aged 18 or under for whom the authority was responsible immediately before the beginning of their detention, or

(ii) that the authority thinks is accommodation in which such persons are likely to be detained;”

Lord Nash: My Lords, I rise to move the group of government amendments starting with Amendment 27A. These amendments will strengthen provision for children and young people with special educational needs in the youth justice system. Provision for young offenders has been the subject of considerable debate during the passage of this Bill, both in this Chamber and in the other place. This is an issue that we must get right. Evidence suggests that nearly one in five young people in custody has a statement of special educational needs. I offer my sincere gratitude to the noble Lords who have pursued this matter, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. I have benefited considerably from his expertise in this area, and I pay tribute to his tireless efforts to secure better outcomes for those with SEN in custody.

I also offer my thanks and appreciation to the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, and my noble friends Lord Addington, Lord Storey and Lady Walmsley, all of

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1416

whom have contributed valuably to this discussion. I have considered all representations on this issue very carefully, and I am now pleased to bring forward a series of amendments that will considerably strengthen protections for this vulnerable group.

The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has tabled Amendment 50, which I support, removing Clause 70 of the Bill, which currently disapplies Part 3 of the Bill to children and young people in detention. The Government’s amendments would replace Clause 70 with new provisions after Clause 65, which would enable education, health and care assessments to take place for a detained child or young person; require home local authorities and health service commissioners to use their best endeavours to arrange the special education and health provision specified in a plan during the period in custody; and require relevant youth custodial institutions—that is, young offender institutions, secure children’s homes and secure training centres—to co-operate with the home local authority when arranging support for young offenders with SEN. These changes will ensure that needs are identified and assessed at the earliest opportunity, that the best possible support is provided to young people in custody, and that there is a single point of accountability before, during and after their period in detention.

The first clause affected by this group of amendments is Clause 28, hence our consideration at this time. However, in the interests of clarity, I will firstly explain the substantive amendments that we would introduce after Clause 65. The point at which a child or young person is first detained is a crucial opportunity to identify special educational needs. Amendments 47B and 47C would allow the custodial institution, and the detained person or their parent, to request a full, statutory education, health and care assessment from the detained person’s home local authority. Under our amendments, a home local authority must also determine whether to conduct an assessment when a detained child or young person has been brought to its attention by someone else—for example, a professional working with the child or young person. This will support early identification of needs; it will also make best use of the time that a young person is in detention so that an assessment can get under way and support be put in place immediately upon release.

Amendment 47D would extend the right to appeal to a detained young person or a detained child’s parent when they were unhappy with a local authority decision not to carry out an assessment or a decision not to make provision following an assessment.

Amendment 47E would require a child or young person’s home local authority to use its best endeavours to arrange the special educational provision specified in the EHC plan while they are in custody. This is a strong and robust statutory duty, requiring the home local authority to do everything in its power to arrange the specified provision, or provision corresponding as closely as possible to it, or other appropriate provision while the individual is detained. Placing this duty on the home local authority will provide continuity and stability that is not present under existing arrangements. It will significantly improve accountability and ensure that, wherever a child or young person is detained, there remains a single point of accountability and a

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1417

single contact for their families. It also creates a strong incentive for the home authority to arrange the best possible provision, as it will remain responsible for that child or young person throughout their period of detention and afterwards when they return home.

Amendment 47E would also create a parallel requirement for a detained child or young person’s health services commissioner to use its best endeavours to arrange the healthcare provision specified in an EHC plan. Where a child or young person is detained in custody, the relevant health services commissioner would be NHS England. This is a new duty, which would require the health service commissioner to do everything in its power to arrange the specified provision, or provision corresponding as closely as possible to it, or other appropriate provision while the individual is detained.

Amendment 27A to Clause 28 and Amendments 33HA to 33HK to Clause 31 would require relevant secure institutions—young offender institutions, secure children’s homes and secure training centres—to co-operate with the local authority. These amendments will require governors of young offender institutions or those in charge of other establishments in the youth secure estate to work with local authorities to deliver the best possible support for those in custody. These new statutory requirements will give local authorities the backing they need to ensure that custodial institutions play their part. This also reflects the Government’s ambition to place education at the heart of youth detention, set out in the Transforming Youth Custody consultation paper.

In addition to these substantive changes, we have also made a series of technical supporting amendments to Clauses 36 and 48, and to Schedule 3. These supporting amendments also include adding a new clause, “Application of Part to detained persons”, which includes a regulatory power to apply further provisions to detained people. These regulations, along with a revised section within the code of practice, will allow us to set out more detail about how we expect these new duties to operate in practice, and the relative roles and responsibilities of each party.

Amendments to Schedule 3 make consequential amendments to the Education Act 1996 to reflect the fact that these new provisions would replace existing provisions in England, but not in Wales. The Government, in consultation with the Welsh Ministers, would have the power to amend provisions by regulation. This package of amendments represents a much more robust statutory framework for detained young people, which responds to the valuable contributions and issues raised by noble Lords, for which, as I say, I am extremely grateful. I beg to move.

Lord Ramsbotham (CB): My Lords, I begin by thanking the Minister for his courteous words in his introduction. I feel that we are almost there on children in detention, but not quite. I fear that some work remains to be done to ensure that the intent outlined in the Government’s amendments is brought to pass. I am very grateful for the many meetings and discussions which have resulted in the amendments that the Minister outlined, which make my Clause 70 stand part debate

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1418

irrelevant. However, both as a former soldier and Chief Inspector of Prisons, I admit to remaining unease, fuelled in particular by proposed new subsection (4) of Amendment 47E, which requires a home local authority to,

“use its best endeavours to arrange appropriate special educational provision for the detained person”.

Those words seem far too weak to ensure that anything actually happens.

I refer to the intent behind my Amendment 49, which—despite much of the content having been, like my stand part debate, made irrelevant by the government amendments—remains very much extant in intent. To me, “best endeavours” is too weak because it leaves too much open for too many individuals to interpret to allow consistent provision of what is intended. Therefore, I plead guilty to falling back on a concept that underpins consistent provision of what is intended in the Army, namely duty. In the long-term interests of young people with special educational needs, quite apart from the best interests of the country as a whole, I can see no reason why, rather than leave such provision to chance, a duty should not be put both on a local authority to arrange that provision be made for an EHC plan to be continued in custody, and on places of detention to deliver what is required in such a plan. That is what it appears that the Government intend, because proposed new subsection (1) of Amendment 47C states that a home local authority must secure that an EHC plan is prepared for a detained person. Unfortunately, though, as I have bemoaned on many previous occasions, such an intent is unachievable because the Ministry of Justice cannot guarantee to deliver what is arranged, prepared or required.

Unlike any other operational organisation such as a school, hospital or business, the Prison Service makes no one responsible or accountable for the treatment and conditions of any group of people in custody such as women, children or young people. Not only is the governor of any place of detention not bound to continue any practice that was in place when he or she took over, but alone determines what is or is not appropriate and will or will not be provided. Having campaigned unsuccessfully for 19 years to have this changed, and having seen far too many promising initiatives and developments dropped—wholly wrongly and unnecessarily—I suggest that if the Government mean what appears to be the intent of this group of amendments they must do something about the wording in proposed new subsection (1) of Amendment 47C and proposed new subsection (4) of Amendment 47E because, as set down, they are incapable of securing anything. I put it to the Minister that neither the Government nor any local authority should feel comfortable that the Ministry of Justice at present lacks the means of ensuring EHC plan provision in places of detention. Therefore, not least to ensure the credibility of government legislation, he should be seeking other means of securing it.

I turn to the code of practice, which has been mentioned many times during the passage of the Bill and is currently out for consultation. At present, certainly to a lay man such as me, the code appears to be a vast document, full of “musts”, without any specification about who is to deliver them or oversee their provision.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1419

The Minister has often emphasised the store the Government set by the code, and I therefore ask him whether he sees it as the vehicle by which the problem I have outlined is to be remedied. If he does, I ask him whether he will reconsider the wording in the government amendments and tell the House, probably at Third Reading, exactly how the code of practice will be worded so that provision of EHC plans is secure. I understand that NHS England is responsible for contracting provision of the healthcare part of any plan from an appropriate local provider, but I would be grateful for information on how exactly that is to be secured. I use the word “security” deliberately because local authorities, which are responsible for the continuation of any provision after the release of anyone from detention, will have a vested interest in the quantity and quality of the provision of what they are told that they must secure, but over whose provision they have virtually no control. In other words, as I said at the start of my contribution, we are nearly there but I suggest that we need one last shove before we can feel certain that provision of what the Government want is secure.

4.30 pm

Baroness Warnock (CB): I support everything that my noble friend Lord Ramsbotham has said. This is an enormous opportunity and it would be disastrous if the Government did not seize it. It has long been an outrage that there is a large number of young people with special educational needs in places of detention. Nobody disputes the evidence that there is a huge number of such young people, and this is an opportunity to remedy the neglect that these children have had. I entirely agree that the present wording is such that local authorities may very well make no changes whatever, and the Ministry of Justice has no power to compel governors of such places to do what urgently needs to be done. I do not think that there can be any dispute about that, and I implore the Minister to come back with wording which is a great deal tighter and which will make the change that we all know has needed to be made for a long time.

Lord Storey: My Lords, we all know that 70% of these young offenders have special educational needs. We also know that 10% or 20% of them have statements. We know, too, that a huge number of them—I do not know the exact figure but 70% or 80%—will go on to reoffend. Therefore, it is really important that this group of young people gets the best possible special educational needs support. When this Bill first came out, I found it unbelievable that EHC plans would not be going with these young people into their institutions.

One of the hallmarks of the Bill has been the Minister’s desire to discuss, consult and listen to what people say, and I pay tribute to him for doing that. During the discussions on this matter, it has become clear to all of us that the number of young people in these institutions is declining, as is the time that they spend in them—thank goodness. The practicalities of getting their EHC plans to go with them becomes very difficult, particularly if you are talking about different local authorities, and therefore what the Minister is proposing seems sensible.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1420

I also pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, for his remarkable knowledge in this area. I agree with him, and I hope that when the Minister replies he will be able to refer to the concern that a lot of us share about the words “best endeavours”. Sadly, the justice system is not an educational system, and “best endeavours” is too wide a hope—for example, “I use my best endeavours to get up early in the morning but I don’t”. I hope that noble Lords can see the point that I am making. The use of this phrase is a recipe for not doing the sorts of things that we in this House want to see provided for these young people. Maybe the word to use is “responsibility” or “duty”—I do not know—but I hope that the Minister will indicate that he will look at this again and come back with exact wording to make sure that the special needs provision that we all want to see is provided.

Baroness Howarth of Breckland: My Lords, I shall be brief, as I usually am, but I want to say two things. One is that when I read these amendments my heart leapt. I thought that if only the home local authority could be made responsible for every young person in secure provision on this basis with a proper plan for seeing them through—as I remember, and as I am sure my noble friend Lord Laming will remember, was the case in children’s departments, where someone was responsible for a young person, with a plan, wherever they were—that would be absolutely wonderful. Of course, at that time there was much more focus on education in the institutions, as childcare establishments, than there is in some of the more penal establishments that exist today.

So I was utterly delighted and was going to congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, whose tenacity of purpose has taken this through, until I realised, as he did, the key flaw in this piece of legislation. That flaw is that those who wish to take the plans through are not the people with the capacity to provide the resource in order for it to happen in the place it needs to happen. As I am always interested in implementation, I thought about how this would work. There has to be a further step somewhere, either in some sort of regulation or a change in the legislation, that ensures that these plans are formulated into the institution—because, remember, these are individual plans. In the institution they have to be put together into programmes for groups of young people; it is not as easy as simply saying that you can carry each plan through as it stands without extra provision being brought in, with all the problems with that in terms of financing.

I hope that the Minister will look at this, take heart that many of us have been very impressed with the way he listens, and take it forward. Many of us are very concerned about young people in detention who have been failed by everybody by the time they get to detention, particularly those with special educational needs who should not be in this form of provision at all. Surely they can get the right education through this legislation, but they certainly will not with this flaw.

Baroness Walmsley (LD): My Lords, I have a suggestion following what the noble Baroness has just said about implementation, but first I must say how pleased I am

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1421

to see that my noble friend Lord Nash has listened tremendously well and gone away and done something about it. This has been a great example of the way this House works so well behind the scenes. I am very pleased that the blanket statement that all the good stuff in the Bill should not apply to children in custody has been got rid of and that my noble friend the Minister has grasped the opportunity that the Bill gives to put something better in place. Let us see whether we can get it as perfect as we would like to see it.

It occurs to me that it is a very good thing that the responsibility moves back to the home local authority. What we want to see when young people come out of custody and go back to their home local authority is continuity of provision. I know that the Local Government Association has welcomed this provision, but the people actually delivering the services while the young people are in custody are a company, an organisation that has been contracted to deliver that service from outside. They are not the prison authorities. These education services are provided by external organisations under contract. Why should those contracts not always have a proviso within them that says that there is somebody within the organisation with the responsibility of liaising with the home authority to ensure that the EHC plan is delivered, or the assessment is made, whichever is appropriate, and that the services are provided while the young person is in custody? That should be a condition of the contract for delivering education services within the prison. They should be obliged, under their contract, to provide what EHC plans say should be provided. I see no reason why that should not be a condition of winning a contract for providing services within a prison.

My final point is that I am particularly pleased about the duty that is being put on health commissioners to provide services within an EHC plan. I am aware, and the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, has emphasised it on many occasions, that speech and language therapy is much needed by a high percentage of young people in custody. Let us hope that those services will be provided better in future under these new provisions.

Baroness Hughes of Stretford (Lab): My Lords, my name is attached to Amendment 50 along with that of the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. The amendment seeks to take Clause 70, which disapplies the provisions of Part 3 to detained young people, out of the Bill and I am pleased that the Government have accepted that. I also support Amendment 49, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham.

I can be brief because most of the points have been made. I welcome the Government’s recognition that, as the noble Lord, Lord Storey, said, it was unbelievable that the provisions in Part 3 ought not to apply to detained young people and they have come some way, at least, to applying some of the provisions to young people in custody. However, I regret that, compared to the situation that will exist for young people in the community, the provisions in the government amendments are weak and that, as they stand, they will not give detained young people the same rights to and expectations of support as those in the community.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1422

A number of points have been raised and I would like to summarise two significant holes in the proposals in the amendments as they hang together. First, where there is an EHC plan in existence before a young person goes into custody, the amendments will require the home local authority to maintain that plan and be ready to re-implement it on the release of that young person. That is good. However, as the noble Lords, Lord Ramsbotham, Lord Storey and others have said, the amendments will require the local authority and the healthcare authority to use only their “best endeavours”. That is very different from the duty on the local and healthcare authorities for young people in the community to secure the provision in the EHC plan. That is a big hole and I should be grateful if the Minister would address that issue and say why the Government have diluted the duty on local authorities in respect of detained young people.

The other big gap, which has been addressed in different ways by different contributors to the debate so far, relates to what happens to young people while they are in custody. Most of the amendments address the issue of what happens when the young person is released—they ought to be able to go back home and the home authority should carry on implementing the EHC plan that was in place—but there is nothing in the amendments about what happens in custody. There is a duty on YOIs and custodial institutions to co-operate with the local authority but there is no requirement on the institutions to, for example, identify if a young person has SEN if it has not been identified before they go into custody. This may well be the case because many of them have special educational needs. There is no responsibility on the custodial institution to request an EHC assessment. They can, but there is no requirement for them to do so. There is no responsibility laid on the custodial institutions to take over the responsibilities that would exist for a local authority if that young person was still in the community.

The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, referred to the contractors providing the education, but the responsibility ought to lie with the public sector organisation, or the quasi-public sector organisation in the case of a privatised institution, which is holding these young people. It ought to be its responsibility to address the special educational needs of those young people while they are in custody, working closely, of course, with the home local authority from which a young person has come and to which they will return.

4.45 pm

As these amendments stand at the moment, there is nothing that requires the young offender institutions to pay attention to the special educational needs of the young people in custody or to address them in any way at all. That is a big gap. I do not know whether it has arisen because the Ministry of Justice does not want to take on those responsibilities but it is a glaring omission. It means that a young person may go into an institution with an EHC plan and may come out with the home authority ready to implement that EHC plan again but, in the middle, there is no requirement on anybody to do anything. That is a big gap. As the noble Lord, Lord Storey, said, these are the most needy young people in terms of their special educational

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1423

needs, with huge issues. This is an opportunity, when they are in custody, to address those issues very securely. I hope the Government will rethink and strengthen these amendments. The amendments are good, in so far as they go, but they need to be strengthened further in those respects. I hope that the Minister will agree to think again.

Lord Addington (LD): My Lords, Amendment 48A is in my name. The noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, made the point, also made in the amendment, that hidden disabilities—my interest in dyslexia is very well known in the House—are, by definition, difficult to spot. We also know that they are grossly overrepresented in all sections of the prison and youth justice systems. My amendment suggests that there should be some duty on those institutions to try to identify people in them with such disabilities. Providing education, training and, indeed, even socialisation for people who have been denied the ability, for instance, to access the written word and education is going to be incredibly difficult. They do not respond well and it is something that they cannot do. For example, you cannot even access social security when you leave prison. That might be going slightly off the point, but it is important that the Government give us an idea about the pressure that will be placed on these institutions to try to identify those who have these problems. Most of the work that has been done in this area shows that there is a much better chance of them not reoffending if that is done.

Lord Nash: My Lords, I am delighted that the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, is satisfied that we are nearly there. However, as always, we do not quite seem to be there. The best endeavours clause that we are proposing for home local authorities would place incentives, we believe, in the right place—it is in the home local authority’s best interests to arrange quality provision, as it will remain accountable for the young person while they are detained and when they return from detention.

I remember many late nights in lawyers’ meetings when I have been strongly advised not to give a “best endeavours” undertaking, as it is a very strong under- taking, but to try to get away with a “reasonable endeavours” one. My legal training teaches me to believe that a best-endeavours undertaking is actually a very strong one.

The amendments specifically require the local authority to secure the special educational provision that is specified in the plan. If that is not possible, best endeavours would require home local authorities to do everything they could to arrange the special education provision specified in a young offender’s EHC plan while they are in custody—or provision that corresponds as closely as possible to it or to other appropriate provision. Some provision specified in EHC plans cannot be arranged by local authorities while a person is in custody: most notably and obviously, any requirement for a young person to attend a particular school or college, which of course they cannot attend while detained. It is for this reason that it is necessary to use the term “best endeavours”. It is a technical term that avoids placing a legal duty on local authorities which is impractical or impossible for them to deliver.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1424

Amendment 47E does not, we believe, provide a get-out enabling home local authorities to have a free choice about which services they arrange for detained children and young people. They cannot simply decide, without robust justification, that some provision is no longer appropriate, just to avoid arranging it. Under the best endeavours duty, their starting point must be to arrange the provision specified in the EHC plan. They can arrange alternative or other appropriate provision only once they have done everything they can to arrange the provision specified in the plan.

Local authorities and the health services commissioner will be accountable to parents and young people in respect of this best endeavours duty. Parents and young people will be able to complain to their home local authority or to the health body—with ultimate recourse to judicial review. Our strengthened best endeavours duties will be accompanied by a robust code of practice.

The existing contracts for education services in public sector young offender institutions are due to end later this year. We will ensure that the arrangements made with the new education providers support local authorities as they seek to fulfil their best endeavours duty to ensure that provision in EHC plans continues to be delivered while a child or young person is in custody.

The current draft code of practice was of course written before we tabled these amendments. We will now rewrite the code to reflect them and the intent that I have today set out. I am very happy to discuss the wording of the code with the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, outside the Chamber. The code is of course subject to affirmative procedure. I hope that the noble Lord will find that helpful. I look forward to those discussions with him so that it will not be necessary for us to come back to this at Third Reading.

Baroness Hughes of Stretford: I am not clear: could any requirements in relation to young offender or custodial institutions included in the code of practice actually be applied to those institutions? Could they come within the purview of the code of practice legally?

Lord Nash: I have no idea, but I hope that by the time I have finished dealing with the amendment of my noble friend Lord Addington, I might have an answer.

My noble friend Lord Addington tabled Amendment 48A to require the host local authority to make arrangements to ensure that the workforce has the skills and knowledge to identify special educational needs and put in place effective interventions. It is already a requirement of those we commission to deliver education in the youth secure estate to ensure that the needs of those young people with SEN are properly identified and addressed. Education providers in the youth secure estate are contractually required to have an appropriately trained and qualified workforce to conduct assessments. They will also have a SENCO who is responsible for managing the effective delivery of specialist SEN services.

Education providers are required to conduct an educational assessment of anyone entering custody unless this information is already known. That includes

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1425

both assessments of levels of literacy, language and numeracy, and the screening of anyone who shows signs of a specific learning difficulty or special educational need. They also use a variety of tools for this purpose, including the hidden disabilities questionnaire developed by Dyslexia Action which screens for a range of hidden disabilities. Provision is subject to regular inspection by Ofsted, where appropriate working with HM Inspectorate of Prisons.

The current contract between the Education Funding Agency and education providers for young offender institutions requires all secure settings to have: procedures for ensuring that the identification and support of specific learning difficulties in young offenders is inspected, evaluated, monitored, reviewed and developed; and an appropriately trained workforce that will identify and support a young offender’s individual learning needs and deliver relevant and individually tailored programmes of learning support to those young offenders whose profiles provide evidence of specific learning difficulties. With the amendments I have proposed today, a young person identified as being at risk as a result of the screening process could be referred for a full EHC assessment. In view of this, and the existing requirements on providers and the amendments I have outlined, I hope that my noble friend will not press his amendment.

I am confident that the government amendments in this group will result in vastly improved provision for children and young people with SEN in custody, and that they address the views and concerns of noble Lords. We have made significant steps on this. As I said, I would be very happy to continue discussing this further—including, if I may, the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes.

Lord Ramsbotham: I thank the Minister for the way in which, as other noble Lords said, he has listened during all our discussions. We have come a long way, but I am still nervous that we have people under the age of 18 in young offender institutions, but health and care plans continue from nought to 25; and we have the problem of the over-18s who will be dispersed elsewhere and who will now, under plans from the Ministry of Justice, no longer go to young offender institutions, but may be sent to adult institutions all over the country.

My nervousness is not so much about the home local authority drawing up the plan but about the actual implications. A great gulf seems still to exist between the intent of the Department for Education, which has been so clearly set out by the Minister, and the ability of the Ministry of Justice to deliver what is required and laid down in legislation. I hope that when we discuss the application of the code of practice, the Ministry of Justice will be present and will be required to set out exactly how it will deliver what is in the code.

Lord Nash: I do, too.

Amendment 27A agreed.

Clause 29: Co-operating generally: governing body functions

Amendments 28 and 29 not moved.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1426

Clause 30: Local offer for children and young people with special educational needs

Amendment 30 not moved.

Amendment 30A

Moved by Lord Nash

30A: Clause 30, page 25, line 23, after “needs” insert “or a disability”

Amendment 30A agreed.

Amendment 31 not moved.

Amendments 31A and 31B

Moved by Lord Nash

31A: Clause 30, page 25, line 25, after first “for” insert “—

(i) ”

31B: Clause 30, page 25, line 26, at end insert “, and

(ii) children and young people in its area who have a disability.”

Amendments 31A and 31B agreed.

Amendment 32 not moved.

Amendment 32A

Moved by Lord Nash

32A: Clause 30, page 25, line 30, at beginning insert “other”

Amendment 32A agreed.

Amendment 33 not moved.

Amendments 33A to 33C

Moved by Lord Nash

33A: Clause 30, page 26, line 2, at end insert “—

(i) ”

33B: Clause 30, page 26, line 4, at end insert—

“(ii) children and young people who have a disability, and the parents of children who have a disability, and”

33C: Clause 30, page 26, line 5, at end insert “(including details of any action the authority intends to take)”

Amendments 33A to 33C agreed.

Amendment 33D

Moved by Lord Low of Dalston

33D: Clause 30, page 26, line 5, at end insert—

“(6A) The Secretary of State shall lay a draft of regulations setting out the standards and quality of the special educational provision, health care provision and social care provision which local authorities must meet in their local offer, and the regulations are not to be made unless they have been approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1427

(6B) Once regulations under subsection (6A) have been made, the Secretary of State must—

(a) issue guidance to local authorities on how to meet these regulations, and

(b) publish information on these regulations accessible to the families of children and young people with special educational needs on the Department’s website, and in any other way he sees fit.”

Lord Low of Dalston: My Lords, Amendment 33D stands in my name and I spoke to it in our first debate this afternoon. When I spoke to it, I said that I would listen to what the Minister and other noble Lords had to say, but I reserved the right to move it and test the opinion of the House when it came up in order. With your Lordships’ agreement, I would like to do that. Never mind all the arguments in favour of the amendment to do with the desirability of a degree of central oversight of a wholly new system being introduced and operated by local authorities, which those who spoke in favour of it maintained is not unduly prescriptive. Irrespective of all that, the main reason why I want to press the amendment to a Division is that I think there has been a considerable misapprehension about the thrust of the amendment on the part of those who expressed reservations about it.

A number of noble Lords said that they were unhappy about an amendment which contained the idea of minimum standards and sought to impose them on local authorities as that would give rise to a tick-box culture, with local authorities merely operating to a bare minimum standard. When I spoke to the amendment I indicated that I had taken this very point when it was made in Grand Committee—that we should not confuse a framework of standards with minimum standards, because if we talked in terms of minimum standards that would lead to this very race to the bottom, which nobody wants to see. I made it clear when I spoke this afternoon that I have very much taken that point.

This amendment does not speak of minimum standards. It merely speaks of the Secretary of State making regulations to provide a framework of standards and quality for local authorities to observe in formulating their local offers. For that reason, I would like to test the opinion of the House.

5.01 pm

Division on Amendment 33D

Contents 197; Not-Contents 258.

Amendment 33D disagreed.

Division No.  1


Adebowale, L.

Adonis, L.

Ahmed, L.

Alli, L.

Alton of Liverpool, L.

Anderson of Swansea, L.

Bakewell, B.

Bassam of Brighton, L. [Teller]

Beecham, L.

Best, L.

Bhattacharyya, L.

Billingham, B.

Blackstone, B.

Blood, B.

Boothroyd, B.

Borrie, L.

Bragg, L.

Brennan, L.

Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.

Brookman, L.

Browne of Ladyton, L.

Campbell of Surbiton, B.

Campbell-Savours, L.

Carter of Coles, L.

Chandos, V.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1428

Chester, Bp.

Clancarty, E.

Clarke of Hampstead, L.

Clinton-Davis, L.

Collins of Highbury, L.

Corston, B.

Coussins, B.

Craigavon, V.

Cunningham of Felling, L.

Davies of Oldham, L.

Davies of Stamford, L.

Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.

Dear, L.

Donaghy, B.

Donoughue, L.

Drake, B.

Dubs, L.

Elder, L.

Elystan-Morgan, L.

Erroll, E.

Evans of Parkside, L.

Evans of Temple Guiting, L.

Evans of Watford, L.

Farrington of Ribbleton, B.

Faulkner of Worcester, L.

Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.

Gale, B.

Gibson of Market Rasen, B.

Giddens, L.

Golding, B.

Gordon of Strathblane, L.

Goudie, B.

Gould of Potternewton, B.

Grantchester, L.

Grenfell, L.

Grocott, L.

Hannay of Chiswick, L.

Hanworth, V.

Harries of Pentregarth, L.

Hart of Chilton, L.

Hattersley, L.

Haworth, L.

Hayman, B.

Hayter of Kentish Town, B.

Healy of Primrose Hill, B.

Henig, B.

Hilton of Eggardon, B.

Hollick, L.

Hollins, B.

Hollis of Heigham, B.

Howarth of Newport, L.

Howe of Idlicote, B.

Howells of St Davids, B.

Howie of Troon, L.

Hoyle, L.

Hughes of Stretford, B.

Hughes of Woodside, L.

Hunt of Chesterton, L.

Hunt of Kings Heath, L.

Irvine of Lairg, L.

Jones of Whitchurch, B.

Jones, L.

Kennedy of Cradley, B.

Kennedy of Southwark, L.

Kennedy of The Shaws, B.

Kerr of Kinlochard, L.

Kidron, B.

Kilclooney, L.

Kingsmill, B.

Kinnock of Holyhead, B.

Kinnock, L.

Kirkhill, L.

Knight of Weymouth, L.

Krebs, L.

Laming, L. [Teller]

Lea of Crondall, L.

Leitch, L.

Liddell of Coatdyke, B.

Liddle, L.

Lipsey, L.

Lister of Burtersett, B.

Low of Dalston, L.

Luce, L.

McAvoy, L.

McDonagh, B.

Macdonald of Tradeston, L.

McFall of Alcluith, L.

McIntosh of Hudnall, B.

MacKenzie of Culkein, L.

McKenzie of Luton, L.

Mallalieu, B.

Masham of Ilton, B.

Massey of Darwen, B.

Mawson, L.

May of Oxford, L.

Mendelsohn, L.

Mitchell, L.

Monks, L.

Moonie, L.

Moran, L.

Morris of Aberavon, L.

Morris of Handsworth, L.

Morris of Yardley, B.

Nye, B.

O'Loan, B.

O'Neill of Clackmannan, L.

Palmer, L.

Patel of Bradford, L.

Pearson of Rannoch, L.

Pendry, L.

Pitkeathley, B.

Plant of Highfield, L.

Prescott, L.

Prosser, B.

Quin, B.

Radice, L.

Ramsay of Cartvale, B.

Ramsbotham, L.

Rees of Ludlow, L.

Reid of Cardowan, L.

Rendell of Babergh, B.

Richard, L.

Rix, L.

Robertson of Port Ellen, L.

Rooker, L.

Rosser, L.

Rowlands, L.

Royall of Blaisdon, B.

St Albans, Bp.

Sandwich, E.

Sawyer, L.

Simon, V.

Slim, V.

Smith of Basildon, B.

Smith of Finsbury, L.

Smith of Leigh, L.

Snape, L.

Soley, L.

Stevenson of Balmacara, L.

Stoddart of Swindon, L.

Stone of Blackheath, L.

Symons of Vernham Dean, B.

Taylor of Blackburn, L.

Taylor of Bolton, B.

Temple-Morris, L.

Thornton, B.

Tomlinson, L.

Tonge, B.

Truscott, L.

Turner of Camden, B.

Uddin, B.

Wall of New Barnet, B.

Walpole, L.

Warner, L.

Warnock, B.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1429

Warwick of Undercliffe, B.

Watson of Invergowrie, L.

West of Spithead, L.

Wheeler, B.

Whitaker, B.

Whitty, L.

Wigley, L.

Wilkins, B.

Williams of Baglan, L.

Williams of Elvel, L.

Wills, L.

Winston, L.

Wood of Anfield, L.

Woolmer of Leeds, L.

Worthington, B.

Young of Hornsey, B.

Young of Norwood Green, L.


Aberdare, L.

Addington, L.

Ahmad of Wimbledon, L.

Allan of Hallam, L.

Anelay of St Johns, B. [Teller]

Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon, L.

Ashton of Hyde, L.

Astor of Hever, L.

Attlee, E.

Avebury, L.

Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville, B.

Balfe, L.

Ballyedmond, L.

Barker, B.

Bates, L.

Bell, L.

Benjamin, B.

Berridge, B.

Black of Brentwood, L.

Blencathra, L.

Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.

Borwick, L.

Bourne of Aberystwyth, L.

Brabazon of Tara, L.

Bradshaw, L.

Bridgeman, V.

Brinton, B.

Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.

Brougham and Vaux, L.

Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood, L.

Browning, B.

Butler-Sloss, B.

Caithness, E.

Cameron of Dillington, L.

Carrington of Fulham, L.

Cathcart, E.

Cavendish of Furness, L.

Chadlington, L.

Chalker of Wallasey, B.

Chidgey, L.

Clement-Jones, L.

Coe, L.

Colwyn, L.

Condon, L.

Cope of Berkeley, L.

Cormack, L.

Courtown, E.

Crickhowell, L.

Cumberlege, B.

De Mauley, L.

Deben, L.

Deighton, L.

Dixon-Smith, L.

Dobbs, L.

Doocey, B.

Dykes, L.

Eaton, B.

Eccles of Moulton, B.

Eccles, V.

Eden of Winton, L.

Elton, L.

Empey, L.

Falkland, V.

Falkner of Margravine, B.

Faulks, L.

Fearn, L.

Fellowes of West Stafford, L.

Fink, L.

Finkelstein, L.

Fookes, B.

Forsyth of Drumlean, L.

Framlingham, L.

Freud, L.

Garden of Frognal, B.

Gardiner of Kimble, L.

Gardner of Parkes, B.

Garel-Jones, L.

Geddes, L.

German, L.

Glasgow, E.

Glenarthur, L.

Glentoran, L.

Gold, L.

Goodlad, L.

Grade of Yarmouth, L.

Greaves, L.

Greengross, B.

Grender, B.

Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.

Hamilton of Epsom, L.

Hamwee, B.

Hanham, B.

Harris of Peckham, L.

Harris of Richmond, B.

Henley, L.

Heyhoe Flint, B.

Higgins, L.

Hill of Oareford, L.

Hodgson of Abinger, B.

Holmes of Richmond, L.

Hooper, B.

Hope of Craighead, L.

Horam, L.

Howard of Rising, L.

Howarth of Breckland, B.

Howe of Aberavon, L.

Howe, E.

Howell of Guildford, L.

Humphreys, B.

Hunt of Wirral, L.

Hurd of Westwell, L.

Hussain, L.

Hussein-Ece, B.

Inglewood, L.

James of Blackheath, L.

Jenkin of Kennington, B.

Jenkin of Roding, L.

Jolly, B.

Jones of Cheltenham, L.

Jopling, L.

Kakkar, L.

Kalms, L.

King of Bridgwater, L.

Kirkham, L.

Knight of Collingtree, B.

Kramer, B.

Lang of Monkton, L.

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1430

Lawson of Blaby, L.

Lee of Trafford, L.

Leigh of Hurley, L.

Lester of Herne Hill, L.

Lexden, L.

Lindsay, E.

Lingfield, L.

Linklater of Butterstone, B.

Liverpool, E.

Livingston of Parkhead, L.

Lothian, M.

Lucas, L.

Luke, L.

McColl of Dulwich, L.

MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.

Mackay of Clashfern, L.

McNally, L.

Maddock, B.

Magan of Castletown, L.

Manzoor, B.

Marks of Henley-on-Thames, L.

Marland, L.

Marlesford, L.

Mawhinney, L.

Mayhew of Twysden, L.

Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.

Miller of Hendon, B.

Montagu of Beaulieu, L.

Montrose, D.

Moore of Lower Marsh, L.

Morris of Bolton, B.

Moynihan, L.

Naseby, L.

Nash, L.

Neville-Jones, B.

Neville-Rolfe, B.

Newby, L. [Teller]

Newlove, B.

Noakes, B.

Northbrook, L.

Northover, B.

Norton of Louth, L.

Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.

O'Cathain, B.

Oppenheim-Barnes, B.

Paddick, L.

Palmer of Childs Hill, L.

Parminter, B.

Patel, L.

Perry of Southwark, B.

Popat, L.

Powell of Bayswater, L.

Purvis of Tweed, L.

Randerson, B.

Rawlings, B.

Razzall, L.

Redesdale, L.

Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.

Rennard, L.

Renton of Mount Harry, L.

Ribeiro, L.

Ridley, V.

Ripon and Leeds, Bp.

Risby, L.

Roberts of Llandudno, L.

Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.

Rogan, L.

Roper, L.

Rotherwick, L.

Rowe-Beddoe, L.

Ryder of Wensum, L.

St John of Bletso, L.

Sanderson of Bowden, L.

Sassoon, L.

Scott of Needham Market, B.

Seccombe, B.

Selborne, E.

Selkirk of Douglas, L.

Selsdon, L.

Sharkey, L.

Sharp of Guildford, B.

Sharples, B.

Shaw of Northstead, L.

Sherbourne of Didsbury, L.

Shipley, L.

Shrewsbury, E.

Shutt of Greetland, L.

Skelmersdale, L.

Smith of Clifton, L.

Sterling of Plaistow, L.

Stewartby, L.

Stirrup, L.

Stoneham of Droxford, L.

Storey, L.

Stowell of Beeston, B.

Strasburger, L.

Strathclyde, L.

Suttie, B.

Taverne, L.

Taylor of Warwick, L.

Teverson, L.

Thomas of Gresford, L.

Thomas of Swynnerton, L.

Thomas of Winchester, B.

Tope, L.

Trefgarne, L.

Trenchard, V.

Trimble, L.

True, L.

Trumpington, B.

Tugendhat, L.

Tyler of Enfield, B.

Tyler, L.

Ullswater, V.

Verma, B.

Wade of Chorlton, L.

Wakeham, L.

Wallace of Tankerness, L.

Walmsley, B.

Warsi, B.

Wasserman, L.

Watson of Richmond, L.

Wei, L.

Wheatcroft, B.

Wilcox, B.

Williams of Crosby, B.

Williams of Trafford, B.

Willis of Knaresborough, L.

Woolf, L.

Wrigglesworth, L.

Younger of Leckie, V.

5.14 pm

Amendments 33E to 33H

Moved by Lord Nash

33E: Clause 30, page 26, line 13, after “involve” insert “—

(i) ”

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1431

33F: Clause 30, page 26, line 15, leave out from “needs,” to end of line and insert “and

(ii) children and young people who have a disability, and the parents of children who have a disability,

in the preparation and review of its local offer;”

33G: Clause 30, page 26, line 21, at end insert “—

(i) ”

33H: Clause 30, page 26, line 23, at end insert “, and

(ii) children and young people who have a disability and those who care for them”

Amendments 33E to 33H agreed.

Clause 31: Co-operating in specific cases: local authority functions

Amendments 33HA to 33HK

Moved by Lord Nash

33HA: Clause 31, page 26, line 30, after “following” insert “persons and”

33HB: Clause 31, page 26, line 33, at end insert—

“( ) the person in charge of any relevant youth accommodation;”

33HC: Clause 31, page 26, line 38, after “The” insert “person or”

33HD: Clause 31, page 26, line 38, leave out “it” and insert “the person or body”

33HE: Clause 31, page 26, line 40, leave out “its own duties” and insert “the duties of the person or body”

33HF: Clause 31, page 26, line 41, leave out “its functions” and insert “the functions of the person or body”

33HG: Clause 31, page 26, line 42, after “A” insert “person or”

33HH: Clause 31, page 26, line 44, after first “a” insert “person or”

33HJ: Clause 31, page 27, line 1, after “assessment” insert “, a detained person’s EHC needs assessment”

33HK: Clause 31, page 27, line 1, after second “the” insert “person or”

Amendments 33HA to 33HK agreed.

Clause 32: Advice and information for parents and young people

Amendment 33J

Moved by Baroness Northover

33J: Clause 32, page 27, line 4, after first “for” insert “children and young people for whom it is responsible, and”

Baroness Northover (LD): My Lords, the Bill already provides for local authorities to be responsible for ensuring that parents of children with special educational needs, and young people with special educational needs, are provided with advice and information. It also already requires local authorities to take appropriate steps for ensuring that parents of children with special educational needs, and young people with special educational needs, know about the advice and information available to them. These government amendments extend that local authority responsibility to children with special educational needs.

In Grand Committee, I said that we were sympathetic to the views of a number of noble Lords about the need for consistent references throughout the Bill and

7 Jan 2014 : Column 1432

the code to the inclusion and participation of children, where that is appropriate. Where there is a specific decision-making responsibility in relation to children, as distinct from young people, it is, of course, right that we vest that in parents. However, as Clause 32 relates to the provision of information and advice, it is appropriate to make a specific reference to children in it. These amendments do that. Indeed, they have the same effect as Amendments 119, 120 and 122 tabled in Grand Committee by the noble Baronesses, Lady Hughes and Lady Jones. I thank them for highlighting this issue. I hope that noble Lords will agree that these amendments are necessary and I urge noble Lords to support them. I beg to move.

Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, I very much welcome the Government’s amendments in relation to the provision of information to children with special educational needs. Children must be able to take part in decision-making which affects them, according to the UN convention. They will be able to do so only if they are fully informed. This is also important so that under-16s are prepared for the time when they have primary responsibility for decision-making at the age of 16.

The Committee on the Rights of the Child has stated that children have a right to information, which is a prerequisite to their involvement in decision-making:

“Children need access to information in formats appropriate to their age and capacities on all issues of concern to them. This applies to information, for example, relating to their rights, any proceedings affecting them, national legislation, regulations and policies, local services, and appeals and complaints procedures”.

It has even specifically called on Governments to amend legislation to ensure that children are provided with information so that they can be effectively involved in decision-making:

“The child’s right to be heard imposes the obligation on States parties to review or amend their legislation in order to introduce mechanisms providing children with access to appropriate information”.

These statements underpin the Government’s amendment to Clause 32, which I warmly welcome. The amendment to Clause 32 will ensure that under-16s are provided with advice and information concerning special educational needs and disabilities as well as relevant services.

While welcoming these amendments, I urge the Government to ensure that they are paying the utmost attention to the detail of the code of practice and associated regulations with regard to children’s involvement in decision-making. The code of practice and regulations will shape what people on the ground do and how they involve children and young people in decision-making in practice, so it is critical that these documents spell out clearly, consistently and in detail, the responsibilities of local authorities to involve children and young people of all ages in decision-making. I therefore support the Government’s amendment to Clause 32 and welcome the intention to ensure that children, in addition to young people, are provided with advice and information. I also call on the Government to set out clearly in the code of practice and regulations the rights of children and young people to be involved in decision-making.