Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-111)
THE HON
OSBOURNE FLEMING,
DR THE
HON LOWELL
LEWIS AND
DR THE
HON MICHAEL
E. MISICK LLB, MLC
3 DECEMBER 2007
Q100 Andrew Mackinlay: And you are
losing that battle, are you not? If you came back in five years'
time it would be a higher figure, would it?
Michael E. Misick: Absolutely.
We are outnumbered already. We send 500 home and another 1,000
come. It is a revolving door.
Q101 Chairman: May I ask you, Mr.
Fleming, about problems that you face? The Foreign Office website
mentions that the main focus of Overseas Territories expenditure
in Anguilla is devoted to enhancing the capabilities of law enforcement
agencies. Do you have a particular problem with crime?
Osbourne Fleming: Yes. I have
made a note here and I want the Committee to know that we are
into tourism. The only industries that really propel Anguilla's
development are tourism and construction. We have seen an unusual
level of crime coming through the country, and most of it can
be attributed to the fact that we have a number of foreign workers
in Anguilla as well as Anguillans who may be involved in crime.
We need some help to combat the criminal activity that is going
on. We feel that if something is not done about it, and quickly,
we could lose the industry by which we survive. We have come to
London to make this plea and I hope that this Committee can help
us. We need some help to combat the criminals; otherwise, we may
be back on the grant in aid again. We never want to subject ourselves
to that again. Tourism is a fragile industry—I know that
I am speaking to the choir, here. It can be wiped away by criminal
activities. Although we are doing fairly well, we need some help
in that direction. Of course that presence is costing us, but
we are better off sacrificing ourselves to keep some help from
London in Anguilla than to lose the whole country.
Q102 Chairman: What kind of crime
are you talking about?
Osbourne Fleming: We have had
some murders this year, which were unprecedented. There is some
stealing and some larceny. Luckily for us, this has not been against
tourists over the last year and a half. It has been localised
up to now, but the criminals will not stay in one spot. They will
go where they think there is prey. It is not out of control, but
we must begin to close the gap quickly.
Q103 Chairman: May I ask all of you
about your financial regulation systems? In a previous session
we had evidence from the Cayman Islands and from the British Virgin
Islands. What is the position in your Territories? Are you satisfied
with the current situation?
Osbourne Fleming: Unfortunately,
I am not the Finance Minister in Anguilla.
Q104 Chairman: You are only the Chief
Minister?
Osbourne Fleming: I am only that
and I delegate and I leave the guys to themselves. However, we
are doing well financially. When you consider our geographical
position, we are edging up. Our offshore services are slowly coming
up. I am glad that the Minister of Finance is here: sometimes
I get tired of him over there. He has brought many measures to
the House of Assembly that ensure that we run a clean operation.
Anguilla's name cannot be tainted. So we try our best to put all
the regulations and Acts in place. As you might know, Mr. Chairman,
we sell high-end tourism. We want everything that we sell to be
high end, even the financial services. To that end we go forward.
We are going forward and ensuring that we deliver the best.
Lowell Lewis: In Montserrat we
have almost completed putting into place and enacting the legislation
that brings us up to date with the rest of the international community.
We have had expert advice and we have shared resources using legislation
from the CARICOM and other countries. We are putting in place
the legislation needed to allow us to participate in international
financial services. In addition, our new draft constitution has
a section on financial regulation, which will more or less provide
all the necessary safeguards.
On the issue of governance, there has to be
some discussion about what is appropriate for small countries,
as opposed to Britain. Your system of governance includes providing
political parties with state funding, expenses for Ministers and
so on. In the small Territories there is nothing like that. I
am a doctor and people complain when I tell a patient that they
do not have to pay today because they cannot afford it. The whole
issue of how you deal with the financing of political activity
and how you resolve conflicts of interests needs to be examined.
The Foreign Office needs to recommend that the Territories adopt
some sort of state support for political activity, to prevent
the differences that occur between those who have and those who
do not. I think that that answers your questions.
Q105 Chairman: You have hit on a
very topical subject, but we will not go there.
Michael E. Misick: We have an
independent financial services commission that regulates our financial
services in the Turks and Caicos Islands. Instead of a boutique
financial services industry, with luxury registry for yachts,
aeroplanes and so on, we have brought our legislation in line
with all the international requirements, including those of the
International Monetary Fund, and we have a stringent know-your-customer
policy for trust companies, banks and other practitioners.
We recently introduced a series of laws, including
proceeds of crime and anti-money laundering legislation, as we
believe in running a clean and high-quality financial services
industry. A lot of it is tied to the construction boom of condominiums
and second homes, and the persons and trusts that use the jurisdiction
for estate planning. We are pleased with how that has panned out
in the last few years.
Q106 Andrew Mackinlay: I want to
ask one thing—it might sound small—about international
bodies such as the Olympics committee. If you have an athlete,
or a sportsman or sportswoman, your only conduit for them to get
advancement is through the United Kingdom. There may or may not
be anyone in that category—I do not know—but it is
a matter of right or justice. Are you in the loop, as it were?
Michael E. Misick: I am happy
that you should raise that question. That is a point that I believe
changed in the last couple of years. For example, the Cayman Islands
has an Olympic committee, an Olympic team. I am not sure about
others, but I know that Turks and Caicos Islands was interested
in the past couple of years in having an Olympic team. However,
because of the current position—I am not sure whether it
is down to HMG or the Olympic committee itself—we are not
able to have our own Olympic team. That is something that certainly
needs to be addressed. Despite the fact that we have a constitutional
relationship with the United Kingdom, all of our various Territories
have their own distinct identities. The people have their own
aspirations and national pride. Nothing in the world can instil
national and identity more than sport. I believe that it is an
injustice.
Q107 Andrew Mackinlay: I fully understand
that, but the Commonwealth games gives you an opportunity.
Michael E. Misick: It is not the
Olympics.
Q108 Andrew Mackinlay: No, but when
it comes to the Olympics—I am not sure of the sports—you
might have handgun people, for instance, who might not be known
in the UK by those making decisions about the United Kingdom team,
of which you are entitled to be a part. That is correct, is it
not? I note that the Montserrat representative is nodding his
head. I do not know what athletes or sportsmen you have, but I
am concerned that you are out of sight and out of mind.
Lowell Lewis: Our athletes have
tried out for the British Olympic team. However, I am glad that
you mentioned sport, because that is something that I have to
mention. In our recovery, we have had little or no financial support
for any sporting facilities in our Islands, among many other things.
If you are rebuilding a nation and a country that has been destroyed,
resources have to be put into social services.
Q109 Chairman: You have had significant
support from the Department for International Development over
recent years, since the disastrous consequences of the volcano
nearly 12 years ago. In your opinion, how good are the arrangements
now being made by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and DFID
to assist Montserrat?
Lowell Lewis: I think that they
have finally agreed that we need a lot more. The extent of the
destruction was never really understood. The bottom line is that
we lost 80% of our assets. We are rebuilding because the northern
17 square miles is safe. Many essential things are needed. We
do not have a port. There is no courthouse. Many basic items are
still not in place. Although we have had a lot of help, a lot
more is needed. It is as simple as that. At the moment, 70% of
our revenues are budgetary aid; we were once self-sufficient,
with a surplus. All we need is to replace what we have lost—the
hospital, the library and so on; essential infrastructure—and
then we will be able to start again.
Q110 Chairman: Finally, may I ask
you all a question that we asked the previous panel? Are you satisfied
with the relationship that you have with the UK Parliament?
Osbourne Fleming: I have already
reported this to the Committee and I want you to take the message
forward because we need help on it: four of us cannot run the
government of Anguilla. You are well aware of the problems taking
place in that country. The situation is very hard for us. I want
to push that point.
Chairman: You made that point at the
beginning and you are making it at the end.
Osbourne Fleming: Other than that,
we enjoy a good relationship.
Lowell Lewis: I have just received
a note from my colleague saying that I should make a plug for
a Parliament building in Montserrat. The bottom line is that we
have a relationship that can improve. We invite you to come to
Montserrat, because only when you come there do you realise that
we have a future and realise the devastation that we sustained
and the additional help that we need.
Chairman: Thank you.
Michael E. Misick: There needs
to be better relations between Parliament and Members of Parliament
in the various Overseas Territories, so that people are better
able to understand the dynamics of the different Territories.
I think that most of us seek a modern relationship in which there
is representation, just as Scotland and Wales have representation,
whether it is in the House of Commons or elsewhere. I believe
there was a Bill several months ago about possible representation
from the Overseas Territories in the House of Lords. If we are
to have a long-term marriage, the time has come for consideration
of the Overseas Territories having direct representation in the
House of Commons. Perhaps there could be a couple of elected Members
as well as persons in the House of Lords. That is one area that
has not been looked at properly and that can be improved if there
is to be a long-term modern relationship. We can look at the United
States and Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands—
Andrew Mackinlay: Samoa.
Michael E. Misick: Samoa. There
is also Guam. Hawaii is a state, but has representation in Congress—even
Washington DC has it.
Q111 Chairman: Even the French Senate
has representatives for the Overseas Territories, so the point
you are raising is well made.
Michael E. Misick: Exactly. St.
Martin and Guadeloupe and all those places have representation
in the French Parliament. The situation is the same with the Dutch.
The colonial days are over. We are talking about the remaining
Territories and their citizens. There are probably fewer than
160,000 people and most of us are from the Caribbean region. The
time has come for the United Kingdom to consider a modern approach
whereby if most of the Territories want to remain British, there
has to be a modern relationship. Otherwise, once Territories develop
a certain degree of economic independence, they will probably
sail off into the sunset. Today, when we are all interdependent,
there can be a modern relationship with the remaining Territories.
Chairman: Gentlemen, thank you for coming.
Thank you for your time and your comprehensive answers. We hope
you enjoy your Overseas Territories meetings in the next two days
and we wish you all the best for the future.
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