Examination of Witnesses (Questions 110-119)
HIS HOLINESS
THE DALAI
LAMA
22 MAY 2008
Q110 Chairman: Good morning. Today is
about the human rights inquiry that we do every year. As part
of that, we take evidence from time to time from different individuals
and organisations. Because of the importance of the issues relating
to Tibet and China, and the visit of His Holiness the Dalai Lama,
we thought that we would take the opportunity to have a public
evidence session with him to explore those issues.
Your Holiness, I am pleased that you found the
time during your very busy visit to this country to come before
our Committee. What is your assessment of the human rights situation
in Tibet in the light of the recent protests?
The Dalai Lama: First of all,
I want to thank you and the Committee for extending the invitation
to come here. It is a great honour. Thank you.
On human rights issues, after 10 March, I think
there were initially genuinely peaceful demonstrations. Then,
according to Chinese information, some violence was involved,
which is very sad. As for the scale of the demonstrations, they
took place not only in the autonomous region of Tibet, but major
demonstrations took place outside the autonomous region in four
Chinese provinces: Qinghai province—that, actually, is my
birthplace—Gansu province, Sichuan province and Yunnan province.
Although it is very difficult to get precise information, generally
arrests still continue. After arrests, there has been severe torture,
which is very serious.
I want to mention to you the main reason why
it is important to go deeper. Why did these demonstrations happen?
That is important. For the last 50 or 60 years, human rights violations
were always there—sometimes a little lenient, sometimes
more harsh. Basically, there has been a kind of rule of fear,
a rule of terror. That is the real cause. Also, there has been
a violation of religious freedom, which is very serious. Then,
there have been environmental issues.
Q111 Chairman: Can you give some
indication of the specific human rights abuses that you think
have happened in Tibet in recent weeks?
The Dalai Lama: One thing that
I personally feel is rather sad and very painful is that when
they arrest, they torture severely before asking questions—they
simply torture. One example, I think, was in Qinghai province.
In one monastery—I think that a few hundred monks were there—in
the beginning, three monks demonstrated and were arrested. Then
more monks appealed for their release. Again, they were arrested
and severely tortured. Among them was the old abbot of the monastery
who was over 80 years old. He was a great scholar. He also got
a beating, and his leg was broken as a result of torture. When
I heard that story, I found it really painful.
Q112 Chairman: Can you envisage a
situation in which the widespread calls for an international investigation
into the events in Tibet would be accepted by the Chinese Government?
The Dalai Lama: That I do not
know. Right from the beginning—after this crisis had happened—it
was very difficult to get clear information. Also, the information
was always different. There were different versions of the story.
Therefore, I appealed to the international community to send respected
people as observers to the area to carry out a thorough investigation:
first, to find out the causes of the problem; and secondly, as
the Chinese Premier himself had publicly accused us and said that
the crisis had started from outside, to establish whether or not
we had a connection. I wanted them to come to my place at Dharamsala
to check all our files and documents and also the speeches that
I have given from time to time to Tibetans who have come from
Tibet. All those things are recorded and can be checked
Chairman: I want to bring in some of
my colleagues now.
Q113 Mr. Horam: I understand your
point, your Holiness, that it is necessary to try to get some
international investigation of the facts because we know too little.
Am I right in thinking that you personally called for such an
international investigation?
The Dalai Lama: Yes.
Q114 Mr. Horam: Will you raise your
call for an international investigation when you meet the British
Prime Minister Gordon Brown tomorrow?
The Dalai Lama: Yes, I will.
Mr. Horam: Good.
The Dalai Lama: Do you think it
would be appropriate to ask him?
Mr. Horam: I think so, absolutely. We
would strongly support it.
The Dalai Lama: Then I will do
it, certainly. You all approve, so I will ask him.
Q115 Mr. Horam: The international
aspect of this is that China has signed the United Nations covenant
on civil and political rights, but it has not ratified it. Is
that something that you could raise with Gordon Brown when you
see him tomorrow? Surely it is important that China, which has
signed the covenant and therefore made some token gesture, takes
it right through and ratifies it. Is that something that you will
be willing to bring up with Gordon Brown?
The Dalai Lama: Of course, this
terminology is hard to memorise, but I understand the meaning.
I want to raise the matter. China is under an obligation because
it has already signed.
Q116 Mr. Horam: Do you think that
it would be helpful if China ratified the covenant at this particular
time? Would it be helpful to the Tibetan situation?
The Dalai Lama: In the long run,
certainly, yes. For example, the genuine autonomy that we seek
is actually in the constitution, and particularly in what is called
the white paper on the rights of minorities. On paper—very
nice. If these points were actually implemented on the spot, there
would be no reason to complain. But there is always a huge gap
between what is on paper and practice on the spot. In reality,
there is always this gap. That is why I really feel that independent
and objective study or investigation on the spot is helpful even
to the Chinese leaders to know the reality.
Q117 Mr. Horam: Do you hope to raise
this with the Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, tomorrow, and do you
want him to raise it with the Chinese Government?
The Dalai Lama: That, I think,
is up to him.
Mr. Horam: Thank you very much.
Q118 Sandra Osborne: Your Holiness,
do you have an estimate of the number of Tibetan people who were
killed and the number who were detained during the recent protests?
The Dalai Lama: That is very difficult.
You see, there are different versions, and also, because of the
crisis in many places, we really do not know—it is very
difficult.
Q119 Sandra Osborne: Some of the
Tibetan rioters attacked members of the Han Chinese community.
Do you accept that some innocent civilians were killed by the
Tibetan protesters?
The Dalai Lama: Yes, the Chinese
Government carried that kind of information. Actually, I think
that overall, the Tibetans initially carried out the demonstration
according to the non-violent principle. Then, in some individual
cases, their emotion became serious and out of control. Of course,
it is very possible that some unfortunate things happened. If
anyone suffers, Tibetan or Chinese, it is the same—they
are human beings. Our concern, our sympathy, and our condolences
go to everybody.
Now, for example, this earthquake has taken
place. The monks in one big monastery near Lhasa have suffered
very much in recent months at the hands of the Chinese crackdown.
However, monks in that monastery, after this earthquake happened,
collected some money for help for the victims. Also, our organisation
in India, in Dharamsala, actually made an appeal to all Tibetans
outside Tibet, to stop demonstrations in front of Chinese embassies
in different countries. Also, we held some prayer meetings for
the thousands of victims of the earthquake. I personally feel
very sad now because, as a result of the one child policy, many
of these schoolchildren are the only child of their parents, so
their life is so precious. You can imagine how much pain is in
the minds of those parents. It is very sad. Because of that I
think that Tibetans genuinely implement non-violence.
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