Examination of Witnesses (Questions 102
- 119)
TUESDAY 29 JANUARY 2008
MS SHAZIA
QAYUM, COMMANDER
STEVE ALLEN
AND MR
NAZIR AFZAL
Q102 Chairman: Can we now resume
our inquiry into domestic violence and forced marriages. Yesterday
the Committee had a very useful visit to Croydon where we saw
the Family Justice Centre there, and today we have a number of
further witnesses in our inquiry. We are going to start with a
number of questions to Shazia Qayum. Ms Qayum, thank you very
much for coming to give evidence to this Committee. We know this
is a difficult thing to do and we are very grateful to you for
sharing this experience with us. The Committee has, of course,
heard from other survivors of forced marriages and domestic violence
in private but this is the first evidence we are taking in public.
As I understand it, you were taken out of school and held prisoner
in your home, forced to marry abroad and only returned to the
United Kingdom after agreeing to sponsor your husband under duress.
Ms Qayum: That is correct.
Q103 Chairman: You left your home
in 1998 and were subsequently disowned by your family. Could you
give us a brief account of your experience, in particular, in
dealing with the agencies that are there to help you and others
deal with these immensely difficult problems?
Ms Qayum: Firstly, I would like
to thank you for inviting me and giving me a platform to share
my experiences today. My experiences started at the age of 15
when my parents presented me with a photograph of the person they
wanted me to marry in Pakistan, who was my first cousin. When
I refused to get married I was told that I would not be able to
finish my education. At 15 it was very important for me because
it was my GCSE time. I was kept at home for a whole year; no one
from the education welfare, no one from social services asked
the question where I was. My parents handed in a sick note from
the family GP telling them that I was not well enough to attend.
I was kept at home for the whole year and chaperoned everywhere
I went. At the age of 17 I was taken to Pakistan on a family holiday.
I was told: "It's a family holiday and we're going for four
weeks". I was quite excited to go because I had never been
to Pakistan in my life—I am a British-born subject, born
in Britain and never been abroad in my life. On arrival in Pakistan
and a week into the holiday I was told that my preparations were
going ahead and it was my marriage. I was also told that "no"
was not an option and if I did not go through with the marriage
I would not be able to return to the UK. Unfortunately, I did
not feel that I could turn to anybody abroad or any member of
my family. I went ahead with the marriage and then I was forced
to sponsor my spouse for entrance to the UK. I was not only forced
to sponsor him to come to the UK, I was left in Pakistan for a
further six months by my parents until I had done that. When I
submitted the application form to sponsor my spouse, unfortunately,
because I was interviewed with the spouse and the rest of the
family, I was not able to raise my concerns. If I had that opportunity
I would have. I then arrived back to the UK and had to demonstrate
that I could financially support my spouse. While I was working
I used that time to write to the immigration and write to the
Home Office explaining how I was forced to marry and how duress
was a factor, and how I did not want to sponsor the particular
person to come to the UK. I also said in the letter when the marriage
took place I actually told my ex-husband that I was forced to
marry him, and his response to me was he did not care; he just
wanted to come to the UK. Unfortunately, the letters that I did
write to the Immigration and the Home Office, I wrote seven letters
and none of my letters were acknowledged, and to my surprise he
got a visa to come to the country. He arrived in the country ten
years ago. I left home, which was a very big decision for me to
contemplate being disowned by my family, from my community and
everything I knew. I did leave home; I actually rang the police
and was escorted by the police. When the police escorted me from
the property my father was shouting abuse and he actually said
he would find me and kill me. The police officers took me to the
police station, took a statement off me and then told me to make
my own way—did not signpost me to any agencies or any support
networks. I then went and put myself in a bed-and-breakfast and
stayed there for six months with some money that I had saved up
prior from working. After staying in a bed-and-breakfast for six
months I then heard an advertisement for a support agency for
domestic violence and access to refuge provision, and I then went
into the Karma Nirvana refuge where I started rebuilding my life.
It has now been ten years and I am still disowned by my family
today. I believe my ex-husband is still in the UK. I did not support
him for indefinite leave to remain; I left two weeks after him
coming into the UK, and he is still there.
Q104 Chairman: Does he have indefinite
leave?
Ms Qayum: I believe he has.
Chairman: Thank you very for that statement.
My colleagues on the Committee are going to explore each of the
various agencies with you (they have each got a question, for
which we would be grateful if you could answer), starting with
Ann Cryer.
Q105 Mrs Cryer: Shazia, your story
is a story I hear every other week in my constituency. Things
have improved because we are able to help girls like yourself,
I believe, through the two organisations that are presently here,
but things are still difficult. My question was to have been what
sort of response did you get when you want to the police station,
but from what you have already said you did not get much of a
response. I hope that that would not be the case today, but I
am sure there are certain areas where we have a lack of understanding
of your sort of case. Do you have any views as to how a police
person, on the front line, on hearing of a case like yours, should
deal with it immediately?
Ms Qayum: I think the immediate
response should be to believe that person, first of all. I think
that is the most important thing because nine out of ten times
people do not get believed and it is looked over. Also, to take
the risks on board, because the risks do not stop there when you
are leaving home; the risks really start when you have left home.
I think, also, for the police to understand and put that particular
person in touch with a survivor in order for them to share their
experiences with someone else in order to let them know that there
is help and support and light at the end of that tunnel.
Q106 Ms Buck: Just picking up that
point, Shazia, about support, at the very end you just mentioned
the refuge option. To what extent do you feel you knew and had
confidence that there may be safe accommodation available to you;
that there were refuges and that there was somewhere physically
you could go? Again, what kind of improvements do you think need
to be made to that system to help the people like you of today?
Ms Qayum: Firstly, I did not know
about any refuge accommodation and did not know that until I heard
the advertisement on the radio for a support agency who signposted
me to refuge provision. I have never known that there was any
support agency for south Asian women, or any women for that matter,
in terms of domestic violence, forced marriage or honour-based
violence. The only thing I did know was that there were social
workers and foster care homes, and I think that was because of
the whole awareness raising. I think not having posters up in
schools, not having teachers talking about it, no awareness-raising
at schools to make you aware that if you are going through that
there are people you can turn to. I do not believe that I could
have turned to my teacher because I felt my teacher would have
gone straight home and told my parents, but if the teacher is
more aware of forced marriage and honour-based violence more pupils
would feel more confident in turning to them.
Q107 Ms Buck: Is that because you
thought your teacher would not believe you? Or do you think that
the teachers would instinctively take the view that your welfare
was best served by your parents, regardless?
Ms Qayum: I think the teachers
would contact my parents, and they would think my best interests
are with the parent. I think that was also because of my own experiences
of my best friend getting married at the age of 12 for truanting
school. So therefore I was very fearful.
Q108 Mrs Dean: I hope things would
be better nowadays than they were ten years ago in your case.
I was interested to hear what you said about not being interviewed
on your own when you went to the Immigration Service. Were there
other times when you had problems with the Immigration Service?
Clearly, that would have been a chance for you to be able to say
to them that you did not wish to bring your husband over. Can
I ask you two questions, really? What problems did you have with
the Immigration Service, and had you been interviewed at the time,
on your own, would you have felt strong enough to actually say
to them that you did not want to bring your husband over, bearing
in mind that your family could have disowned you for telling them
that?
Ms Qayum: Firstly, if I had an
opportunity to raise my concerns and I know that my parents—that
I would be disowned by my immediate family and my extended family
members, I would have taken that route. The reason why I would
have taken that route is I was considering writing to the Immigration
and the Home Office on my arrival to the UK. If I had that opportunity,
yes, I would have raised my concerns then.
Q109 Mrs Dean: The other question
is more general: what are the problems you had in actually getting
through to them that you did not want this marriage to exist?
Ms Qayum: The only problems with
Immigration, I feel, is when I wrote to the Immigration, and I
continued to write to the Immigration and I called and they told
me they had a backlog, and unfortunately my letters were not acknowledged;
I felt very let down.
Q110 David Davies: Shazia, thank
you for sharing your story with us. Do you think that, in your
experience, this is happening to many young women in your community?
Ms Qayum: I do, I do. I think
it is happening to many, many young women and men, but I believe
it is very under-reported.
Q111 Margaret Moran: Just on the
immigration case, Shazia, you said that (I was going to call him
a gentleman but I will not) the person in question got indefinite
leave to remain. Have you any idea how that happened? The second
point is, before you were taken to Pakistan did you have any inkling
or was there anybody to whom you could have said: "If I don't
come back by such a time alert somebody"? Would there have
been anybody you could have trusted to do that for you?
Ms Qayum: I did not feel that
I could turn to anybody before I went to Pakistan but I also did
not know that I was going to be forced into marriage, because
when I was taken out of school at the age of 15 and kept at home
until the age of 16, for a whole year, as a prisoner, I was then
allowed to find a job, and marriage was not an issue at home—no
one talked about marriage. Therefore, when I turned 17 and was
told to go on a family holiday I did not really think my parents
would force me to marry. The second question: on his arrival to
the UK, on 5 November 1999, I left home two weeks after that.
I had no contact whatsoever but he still got indefinite leave
to remain in the UK. I do not understand how.
Q112 Mr Streeter: Thank you for your
courage in coming here today. Education you have already touched
on—that you were kept back from school and the school did
not make any inquiries. Has there been any subsequent follow-up
from school at all? Really, I suppose, that has wrecked your education?
Have you been able to get qualified in anything since?
Ms Qayum: It was a very big impact
on my education because it was a very important time—GCSE
time. I was kept at home for a whole year and no one from the
education welfare came to ask the question why; I almost felt
invisible and no one cared. I also remember sitting there thinking
that if I was any other child and if I wasn't Asian would school
teachers be knocking on the door? Was I different just because
I was Asian? In terms of my education now, I have just managed
to get my first qualification, which is the first year at university
in community research in mental health of South Asian women. That
is very recent—last year.
Q113 Mr Streeter: I am going to ask
a question but feel free not to answer it. What impact has all
this experience made on your personal faith?
Ms Qayum: Quite surprisingly,
I have used my faith to empower myself. My parents used my other
faith, our religion, as a tool and told me, in particular, that
no matter what your parents say you have to obey your parents.
Yes, you do obey your parents, but if your parents are abusing
you, you know—a wrong is a wrong and a right is a right.
I have used my religion to empower myself.
Mr Streeter: Well done. Thank you very
much.
Q114 Martin Salter: Shazia, what
is very alarming is the lack of practical support you were able
to draw upon from the authorities. Could you just explain for
us why the GP was able to sign you off when you were apparently
completely healthy for an indefinite period of time? Was the GP
part of the conspiracy in your view?
Ms Qayum: The GP was a family
friend. My parents actually went to the GP without taking me to
the GP surgery and they had a sick note and handed it into school.
I do not know how long that period of sick note was for—three
months, three weeks, or six months—but that was handed into
school to say I was not well.
Q115 Martin Salter: Would it be your
advice to us, in the course of our inquiry, that we should probe
the role of GPs in cases like this, where the GPs are actually
in breach of the ethical standards that govern their procedures
by signing sick notes in order to facilitate, effectively, forced
marriage?
Ms Qayum: Absolutely.
Q116 Martin Salter: Okay, we will
certainly take that on board. Secondly, you now work for Karma
Nirvana.
Ms Qayum: I do.
Q117 Martin Salter: And they recommended,
in this incredibly helpful submission, DV36, that we called you
as a witness, and we are all delighted that you are here. However,
we also noticed, in the same submission, that they note that "not
one secondary school in Derby would display the Government's forced
marriage poster, which we have tirelessly advocated schools to
display".
Ms Qayum: That is right.
Q118 Martin Salter: This appears
to me to be touching on the nub of the problem. If the Government's
own Forced Marriage Unit cannot put posters advertising its services
into schools that are funded through the taxpayer, do we not have
a serious problem of institutional resistance? Is this another
area that we should be probing?
Ms Qayum: Definitely. It is very
important to me for all 0young people at schools to know what
help and support is out there. Before the summer holidays myself
and Yasmin Sangerra (?) approached all secondary schools in Derby
and spoke to all heads of schools and told them that we wanted
them to put the posters up for children to know what kind of support
is available and where they can get in contact. They told us they
did not want to offend parents. They have posters for drugs, alcohol
and all other posters up there, and to offend parents and not
have the forced marriage poster is not a good enough answer.
Q119 Martin Salter: You said that
your husband really was not interested whether it was a marriage
under duress or not, all he was interested in doing was getting
into the UK. Is forced marriage used in many ways as a way of
shortcutting the established immigration procedures?
Ms Qayum: Definitely. I see a
lot of young women and men who tell us that forced marriages are
used to get entrance into the UK. I quite clearly told my ex-husband
that I did not want to be his wife and I did not want to be his
partner, and he told me he did not care, he just wanted to come
to the UK. At the same time, that was something we agreed on so
that we did not consummate the marriage. Because I did not want
to consummate the marriage I played along with him to sponsor
him to the UK until I could get help or try to get help from the
immigration by writing to them. Unfortunately, I did not get a
response.
Martin Salter: Thank you very much for
coming to see us.
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