Examination of Witnesses (Questions 120-133)
DEPARTMENT FOR
CULTURE, MEDIA
AND SPORT,
DIGITAL SWITCHOVER
HELP SCHEME
& DEPARTMENT FOR
BUSINESS, ENTERPRISE
AND REGULATORY
REFORM
MONDAY 10 MARCH
2008
Q120 Angela Browning: Finally, Digital
Outreach Ltd, which I have had a note on only in the last week
or two, which is working with charities and has a helpline and
so on, that helpline number that people ring, are they charged
for that phone call?
Mr Stephens: Offhand I am afraid
I do not know.
Q121 Angela Browning: It is 0845
number.
Mr Stephens: I am sorry. I do
not know. We will obviously let you know the answer to that.
Q122 Angela Browning: Would it carry
a premium rate? That is really what I want to ask.
Mr Stephens: Since the purpose
is to reach out to vulnerable groups beyond the help scheme, I
very much hope not, but we will confirm that.[4]
Q123 Mr Mitchell: My question is about
the sell-off of the frequencies. We managed to make £22 billion
when Gordon Brown flogged off G3, and the companies are dissatisfied.
Some of us thought at that time if we are going to make that much
money from selling off the frequencies, some of it should be devoted
to subsidising the transition for beneficiaries and the less well
off. Your brutal, callous Department turned that idea down flat
as old Labour, et cetera, but there still is money to be made,
is there not? Ofcom is now talking about: "the digital dividend"
...
Sir Brian Bender: Yes.
Q124 Mr Mitchell: ...and saying that
the frequencies could go to local television, broadband, high-definition
television. They have listed several uses. Can you just tell me
technically when that happens? You have 1,150 some transmitters
up and down the country. When an area switches over, do those
transmitters, main transmitters and subsidiary transmitters, do
their frequencies become available for flogging off in that area
or do we have to wait until everybody has gone digital before
they can be flogged?
Sir Brian Bender: We do not need
to wait. Ofcom will be consulting on different awards of the spectrum
in the Spring of this year and their present thinking is the timetable
for the main auction will be in some window between the end of
this year and Summer of 2009.
Q125 Mr Mitchell: The local television
they talk of—that will be digital local television, will
it, on digital frequencies?
Sir Brian Bender: The method of
auction will be neutral as to the type of technology and the service.
Whoever bids for it, there will not be any part of it reserved
for particular purposes.
Q126 Mr Bacon: Mr Stephens, you said
something about income-related benefits and pensioners getting
it free, and I was not sure what the "it" in that sentence
was.
Mr Stephens: The help scheme assistance
through the help scheme.
Q127 Mr Bacon: You mean all the assistance
that they need, including a set-top box, will be provided for
free?
Mr Stephens: Yes, the equipment
and the physical assistance in their home, if they require it,
and an aerial upgrade.
Q128 Mr Bacon: Does that mean that,
Mr White, you or your organisation or your contractor will be
buying large numbers of set-top boxes at a low price so that you
have them available to give to such people?
Mr White: Yes.
Q129 Mr Bacon: Good. I wanted to
come on to set-top boxes. I have a fear about a potential risk
that might emerge, but I would just like to go back to the line
of questioning of Mrs Browning. Mr Stephens, you said something
with which, surprisingly, I completely agree, which was that it
might have been an entirely rational decision to buy an analogue
TV, speaking as somebody who has got one myself, mainly because
of the spectacularly low price. I could see that there were other,
flashier televisions in the shop that were a lot more expensive.
This one has a built-in DVD player, and all I wanted to do was
watch my boxed sets of DVDs, with no desire to watch the output
of any of the broadcasters you license, if I can possibly help
it. It seemed a rational thing to do. It is quite possible that
many others did the same. It would be helpful if you were to provide
Mrs Browning with a note if you could include any analysis that
is available of the retail market. There must be consumer data
out there on trends and why people were doing it and that would
be very helpful. My theory—and perhaps, Mr White, you can
address this—is as it gets nearer to switch-off, there could
be emerge a species of spiv, going round terrorising little old
ladies, selling set-top boxes for considerably more than they
actually need to pay in order to get what they need. A set-top
box several people have said is £20-£30. I have not
looked recently but presumably, as large numbers of them are manufactured
and they become more commoditised, that price could drop even
further. You could be looking at a little black box that is the
price of four or five packets of cigarettes. What I fear is you
are going to find people going round knocking on the doors of
people in low income areas, who are unaware of what they need
to do, and trying to sell them something for a considerably higher
price. Is that a risk you have considered? What will you do about
it?[5]
Mr White: It is a risk and I think
we need to be clear to people what the scheme offers them. The
scheme offers what is called the most cost-effective option. Sometimes
it may be DTT, ie, Freeview, or it may be other platforms if they
are the cheaper option but with the DTT box criteria, which are
set by the core receiver requirements, include audio description,
subtitling, ability to use the box with even the oldest of TVs,
so you do not need to change your TV, but those benefits we need
to make sure are described clearly because some of the cheaper
boxes do not have some of those functionalities, but also the
support we offer in terms of going into a home and helping installing
and providing aftercare, so I think we will get round some of
that by being clear about what we offer so people can do direct
comparisons, but it is very difficult to stop rogue traders. We
did not see any real issues of that in the Copeland so we still
have to learn to deal with that as we go into it.
Q130 Mr Bacon: What in your planning
assumptions do you think you will be doing in terms of numbers
of set-top boxes that you are giving away for people on benefits
and pensioners?
Mr White: Again, it is related
to the take-up of the scheme so it is absolutely dependent on
the number of people who take it up.
Q131 Mr Bacon: But since they have
to be manufactured and you are going to buy them, you must have
a rough planning assumption of what you think it might be.
Mr White: Yes, but you would be
surprised. You do not need to buy that far in advance. The quantities
we are looking at from the manufacturers that we are buying from
do not mean there is a great lead time.Obviously, what we do not
want to do either is stockpile loads of boxes that then become
redundant.
Q132 Angela Browning: Very briefly,
and you may want to write on this, in my very rural seat in Devon
I have a very small number of people who cannot actually get reception
of analogue now. What they are asking me is, are we going to get
digital? Will the digital reception be okay? Somebody will need
to advise them on that before they invest a lot of money. Can
you tell me how that will happen?
Mr White: Can I write to you on
that? 6
Angela Browning: Yes, certainly.
6 Note by witness: Everyone can find out
today whether they be able to receive digital television services
from switchover. On the home page of the Digital UK website—http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/—there
is a postcode checker. By typing in your postcode and house number
or name, you can find out what digital television options are
available to you today, and then what digital television service
you are likely to receive at switchover. If you don't have access
to the internet, then you can call Digital UK on 0845 650 50 50.
Q133 Chairman: That concludes our
hearing. Obviously, the most worrying thing is the amount of information
given by retail stores. I do return to this very important paragraph,
Sir Brian, paragraph 3.16, which I think you really have to try
and take action about. "Two thirds of 256 retail stores visited
stocked televisions carrying the digital tick. However, two thirds
of the staff in these stores were unable to explain what it meant.
A follow up mystery shopping exercise in November 2007 found that
around half the retail staff in stores using the logo were still
unable to give a satisfactory explanation of what it meant."
It may be Mr Bacon was making a rational decision—occasionally
even he makes rational decisions -but I just wonder whether he
was actually told the full implications of his decision.
Sir Brian Bender: I repeat, Chairman,
that that is something that Digital UK are on the case on with
retailers.
Chairman: Good. Thank you very much,
gentlemen.
4 Note by witness: To call the Digital UK help-line
(0845 6 50 50 50) British Telecom (BT) charges are up to 2p per
minute in the daytime, and 0.5p per minute in the evenings (plus
a 6p BT connection charge). Rates may vary for calls from other
providers, including mobile operators. Back
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