Examination of Witnesses (Questions 40-59)
HIGHWAYS AGENCY
12 MAY 2008
Q40 Mr Curry: There is certainly
an economic reason as well because I can now cruise at a sensible
speed instead of changing gear, stopping, starting and cursing
at lorry drivers.
Mr Robertson: The fascinating
thing about road transport and motorcar transport, which I assume
you use, is that unlike rail, ships and airlines you make all
the decisions about when you travel, what route you take, whether
you take somebody with you and possibly at what speed you will
travel. Therefore, I fully accept that in order to enable the
networks to work well I have to provide you with good information.
We now believe that we have most of the tolls to give you good
information. The best information is that which you can get as
early as possible. Therefore, if you have not already done it
I would encourage you to check either on the radio, or website
if it is available to you, before you set out on those long journeys
whether there are delays because the closer you get to an incident
the less flexibility there is for you to do something about it.
Q41 Mr Curry: I accept all that.
Mr Robertson: To come to the specific
point that it does not help you too much to know that it is the
A428, I would like to deal with this and be able to give every
one of the 18 million motorists, plus whoever is travelling from
abroad, the information that would help them. But there are quite
a number of people who are familiar with the A428, to take that
example. There are also quite a number of people who are familiar
with the Peterborough turnoff, but unless I give them both pieces
of information I cannot get to everybody.
Q42 Mr Curry: But you have a series
of cameras and so you could give different information from each
camera, could you not? The first one can say there is severe delay
after the A428; the next one can say there is severe delay after
the Peterborough turnoff. You can say there are severe delays
20 or 50 miles ahead which would give an indication of how far
ahead the problem was. You could then provide a suggested alternative
or a diversion, for example that I should turn left at the next
exit.
Mr Robertson: We would do that
had we identified that there was a strategic diversion that we
wanted you to take rather than the fact that you would experience
some delay and might therefore want to leave the route.
Q43 Mr Curry: When I see that am
I supposed to pull over to the hard shoulder and pick up my atlas
to find out where the road is. Do I open the atlas on the front
seat as I am driving in order to spot whether or not I ought to
come off the A1?
Mr Robertson: You have to decide
whether or not you have the time to sit out a delay or come off
and take an alternative route.
Q44 Mr Curry: That is why it is so
helpful to know where it is.
Mr Robertson: That is why I start
off by saying that the person who is making most of the decisions
about travel on a strategic road is not me but you.
Q45 Mr Curry: Who decides what is
put on the screen?
Mr Robertson: Most of the information
that goes on the screen is predetermined in order that our operatives
can put it up as soon as they know there is a problem, which will
normally be a crash of some kind.
Q46 Mr Curry: If there is an accident
and the road is closed, fair enough; if it is a crash so many
miles ahead you know you have to do something about it. The other
suspicion one has is that all of this has happened quite a long
time ago and the cameras are very late in bringing one up to date,
so one tends to take the risk of staying on the route thinking
that the signs are probably a couple of hours out of date and
it has been cleared up ages ago.
Mr Robertson: That is something
to which I am very sensitive because it certainly was an issue
when I came to the agency. I decided that it would be a long haul
to try to pull people to another place, but you will notice that
there are now cameras on the network that tell you the time to
the next junction when it is running clear. We are getting good
feedback from customers as to the accuracy of those and therefore
users are beginning to accept that the information on the screens
is something they can trust and rely on.
Q47 Mr Curry: That is interesting
information and it is the equivalent to the French sign which
says that traffic is fluid, meaning it is moving freely, but when
you see a sign saying "Grantham turnoff 56 miles: 60 minutes",
the sort of reaction is, "Well, I can beat that with a bit
of luck".
Mr Robertson: I will have a word
with the local constabulary!
Q48 Mr Curry: I shall be coming to
that as well in a minute. One then has irritating signs saying,
"Why not take a break?" or something, which is rather
like being on the tube when it is crowded and somebody on the
platform saying, "Move right into the body of the car".
You just want to strangle the individual at that point. Is it
not possible to put up more than a single piece of information?
Can you not express that information in two or three different
ways so it is helpful to the motorist?
Mr Robertson: In short the answer
is yes, particularly if there are a number of signs in sequence
so that we do not overload the information we are trying to put
out.
Q49 Mr Curry: You mentioned speed
cameras. Average speed cameras on overhead gantries are making
their appearance. Are they a preliminary for road pricing?
Mr Robertson: No.
Q50 Mr Curry: What has been the effectiveness
of average speed cameras as opposed to normal speed cameras in
respect of which everybody hits the brakes as they approach them
and then accelerates as they move away from them?
Mr Robertson: We are now using
average speed cameras quite extensively in road works.
Q51 Mr Curry: There is a big stretch
of the A14 that has average speed cameras?
Mr Robertson: We also use them
in particularly difficult areas like the A14. The experience is
good. People are aware of how they have to behave when they come
across average speed cameras and they are proving to be a very
effective way to get people to slow down and stay at that speed
once they are there. As a matter of interest, it is also one of
the vital pieces of technology that depends on the National Roads
Telecommunications Services in order for it to work properly.
Q52 Mr Curry: Are your cameras capable
of detecting people using mobile phones in cars?
Mr Robertson: No.
Q53 Mr Curry: I am sure you are aware
that this is the most widely broken law in the country.
Mr Robertson: I certainly observe
it whenever I walk around town, so that is true, but our cameras
are not capable of that and they are not designed for it. Our
cameras are not used for enforcement. If we are asked by the police
for information about a specific vehicle or incident we will provide
it.
Q54 Mr Curry: You mean other than
speed cameras specifically, that is, those that monitor traffic
flow?
Mr Robertson: The speed cameras
are operated by the speed camera partnerships of which the agency
is a part. Obviously, that is there for enforcement. I think we
have over 1,500 cameras in the network—CCTV and traffic
detection—which are there for traffic management purposes
only, not enforcement. The police have separate cameras which
they use for enforcement, but I am not aware that they are using
them for monitoring the illegal use of mobile phones.
Q55 Mr Curry: What is the experience
on the continent of analogous systems and the information that
they provide?
Mr Robertson: Are you talking
generally about information?
Q56 Mr Curry: Yes. Quite often in
these reports we are told how other people do it. I am thinking
about the value of the information to the user rather than the
economic benefit. The main argument in favour of this is presumably
the economic benefit of traffic flowing at a more consistent pace
and therefore using less fuel.
Mr Robertson: Certainly, tools
like controlled motorway which you see round the M25 where we
set the speed of the traffic at busy times in order to keep it
travelling smoothly rather than stopping and starting are used
elsewhere. As to active traffic management and the use of hard
shoulders, that is employed on a very limited basis elsewhere.
The signs that tell you how long it will take to get to the next
junction are used elsewhere but we are the only place where it
is done nationwide.
Q57 Mr Curry: Had I been coming down
that road on Saturday afternoon I would have quite liked to know
what was happening in the Manchester United v Wigan match. It
does not divert my attention any more than a sign that says "Grantham
56 miles: 60 minutes", does it?
Mr Robertson: There cannot be
many cars left in this country that do not have a radio.
Q58 Mr Curry: But sometimes motorists
have with them their wives who are not very keen on football.
Mr Robertson: You have my sympathy.
Q59 Dr Pugh: Am I right in thinking
that £345 million is the cost of the installation and maintenance
of the project?
Mr Robertson: That was the basis
on which it was done.
Mr Bradbrook: That is the cost
of installation, maintenance and support and the whole life running
of the network for the next 10½ years.
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