Examination of Witnesses (Questions 411-419)
MR TIM
INGLETON, COUNCILLOR
PAUL WATKINS
AND MR
DAVID SHEPPARD
27 FEBRUARY 2008
Q411 Chairman: Good afternoon, gentlemen.
I am sorry to have kept you waiting a little. I must point out
we have just received a message saying that Patricia Brown, Chief
Executive of the Central London Partnership is no longer joining
us. I am not clear why, but we will enquire. Can I ask you firstly
to identify yourselves for the record, starting on my left?
Mr Sheppard: I am David Sheppard
and I am a member of the steering group, Central London Freight
Quality Partnership, as well as being Deputy Head of Transport
for the John Lewis Partnership.
Councillor Watkins: I am Paul
Watkins, Leader of Dover District Council.
Mr Ingleton: I am Tim Ingleton,
Head of Regeneration, Dover District Council.
Q412 Chairman: Thank you. Did any
of you want to say very briefly anything before we start, or may
we go straight to questions? How well are local authorities equipped
to understand and deal with freight transport issues?
Mr Sheppard: I will start. Having
dealt with local authorities now for probably about five or six
years on freight traffic, it has come to my notice that they are
probably not well-equipped, and I do not mean that in a derogatory
manner. I think it is because local authorities tend to focus
in on public transport, moving people, and it is something which
the Freight Quality Partnerships have been trying to move towards
and trying to get all interested parties in local areas to work
together and understand each other's issues, because we have a
common customer, who is the member of the public, and from a retailer's
point of view, from the Freight Quality Partnership's point of
view and the local authority, we have one customer to serve and
we do in many instances seem to be working against each other.
Q413 Chairman: As a matter of interest,
Mr Sheppard, because you cover a large number of population centres
and John Lewis is usually very advanced in the way it does these
things, do you have some sensible sort of routine structure which
you follow if you have a particular transport problem in relation
to the local authorities in each area, or is it just done on an
ad hoc basis?
Mr Sheppard: It is generally done
on an ad hoc basis. Obviously, since the Freight Quality Partnerships
have emerged I have attended probably six or seven across the
country and I do find them very useful from both sides. They learn
from me and I learn from them, particularly within London with
the Central Freight Quality Partnership. I think that is very
useful.
Q414 Chairman: So that is constructive
and you can have a direct feed into what is being discussed?
Mr Sheppard: Absolutely.
Q415 Chairman: Councillor Watkins,
Dover is very involved in Transport at every level. What is your
view of how local authorities are equipped to deal with the question?
Councillor Watkins: I certainly
do not support the opening statement of Mr Sheppard. Certainly
as far as we are concerned we have a very direct impact on the
freight services through our town and as a local authority if
we did not take that interest, then it would be to the detriment
of our community.
Q416 Chairman: But do you think that
is possibly because Dover's real function is to be not just a
port but an entry port, a way of facilitating large amounts of
freight in and out of the United Kingdom? Do you think yours might
be a very specialised background which is not found in other local
authorities?
Councillor Watkins: Yes, I would
say it is, but in making any presentation today we are also bringing
evidence from the rest of Kent and from our neighbouring authorities,
and as far as they are concerned they have a very great interest
in freight movements in and around the county, and indeed in the
South East. I think it is one of the most significant factors.
Our neighbouring authorities along the M20 have formed their own
Channel corridor partnership to deal with the freight issues on
the M20 and particularly in relation to Operation Stack when that
comes into effect with the local community in terms of its environment,
its economy and how local towns function when that occurs.
Q417 Chairman: Do you really think
that local authorities in general, not just Dover, have got sufficiently
experienced staff to deal with these problems?
Councillor Watkins: Yes, I think
they do. If you put the number of staff from where we are located,
district councils and county councils together, we have highway
staff at both levels who integrate to deliver obviously on local
plans, the regional plan. I, for instance, am a member of the
Regional Transport Board for the South East and I have seen the
significance of dealing with these major issues, and freight is
the major issue so far as the South East is concerned. Without
the bottlenecks coming through Dover and through the Channel Tunnel,
obviously UK plc would be grinding to a halt to a certain extent.
Chairman: Yes. I think Mr Martlew wants
to ask you something on that.
Q418 Mr Martlew: You do not seem
to accept that your authority or the neighbouring ones could be
a special case, and I think they probably are if you look at the
rest of the country, but is it not the fact that very often local
authorities when they are dealing with freight, especially vehicles,
are trying to restrict them entering an area, it is not for the
advantage of the freight haulier or getting the goods to the customer,
it is for, probably rightly, the benefit of the residents and
the electorate in that area? So it is actually skewed towards
making it better for the people who live in the area, but it does
not facilitate helping to get freight from one part of the country
to another?
Councillor Watkins: I can accept
that viewpoint. In certain parts of the country if you are on
major transport routes obviously from a local authority's point
of view they will see the majority of freight wanting to pass
through those areas in a quick, efficient, environmentally sensitive
way.
Q419 Chairman: You mentioned the
local transport plans. They are not as prescriptive about freight
issues as they were before. Has the guidance changed in the way
local authorities deal with freight issues?
Councillor Watkins: I will let
me colleague deal with that.
Mr Ingleton: Yes, I think it possibly
has to some degree, although because of our uniqueness at Dover,
of course, the major roads which pass through the area are the
responsibility of the Highways Agency and what the County Council
has sought to do through its application of the local transport
plan is recognise the UK connection and the gateway function,
in effect supporting the various calls which have been made to
upgrade parts of those routes and address some of the consequential
problems that arise along them.
| 
