Examination of Witnesses (Questions 272-279)
Dr Wolfgang von Pommer Esche
27 NOVEMBER 2006
Q272 Chairman:Can
I first ask you how I should address you. You are Dr von Pommer
Esche, is that right?
Dr von Pommer Esche: That is right, but I am
not a doctor of medicine, I am a lawyer.
Lord Dubs: Still "doctor".
Q273 Chairman: Absolutely. In fact, a
lot of doctors and lawyers in Germany are "doctor doctor",
are they not?
Dr von Pommer Esche: Doctor doctor, doctor of
law and doctor of economics.
Q274 Chairman: That is right. Anyway,
Dr von Pommer Esche, thank you very much indeed for coming to
give evidence to us. As you know, this inquiry is an inquiry by
a Lords sub-committee into Schengen II, the Schengen Information
System Mark II. It is on the record, although if at any point
you want to go off the record that is perfectly acceptable to
us, otherwise a full transcript is indeed at this moment being
taken of this meeting. You will be sent the transcript in due
course and it is entirely up to you to say whether you are content
with the remarks attributed to you.
Dr von Pommer Esche: Yes.
Q275 Chairman: Welcome, and thank you
very much for coming to give evidence to us, it is extremely useful.
I think you have probably had notice of our questions.
Dr von Pommer Esche: Yes.
Q276 Chairman: The first question I really
want to put to you is what can you tell us about the extent to
which national supervisory authorities are enforcing SIS data
protection provisions, how far are individuals able to enforce
these provisions and, perhaps most particularly, what is your
experience in your own country in Germany?
Dr von Pommer Esche: Thank you for that question.
I come from the office of the Federal Data Protection Commissioner.
I am head of the unit responsible for compliance with data protection
rules for the German Federal Police Forces, for the German Secret
Service, for security screening and for police and judicial co-operation
in Europe. I have been in office now for about 16 years, that
means for a very long time. Shortly after the signing of the Schengen
Implementation Agreement I started my present function.
Q277 Chairman: I spent most of my diplomatic
life in the Middle East and when somebody tells you that he has
been in the same job for 16 years, you say in Arabic "May
God give you rest"!
Dr von Pommer Esche: We are not as flexible
in our office, myself and my colleagues,as in the Ministry of
the Interior. All heads of unit come from the Ministry of Interior.
Q278 Chairman: Can you give us any idea
of enforcement, the extent to which national authorities or individuals
are—
Dr von Pommer Esche: As the Federal Data Protection
Commissioner we have competence for the supervision or the monitoring
of data processing, which is at federal criminal agency, Bundes
Kriminalamt. The BundesKriminalamt is the central body
for Schengen according to Article 108 of the agreement. In that
capacity we get requests for information from individuals. In
Germany there are two ways to exercise this right. An individual
can directly address the controller of the file, that means the
greater part of the requests are directed to the Federal Criminal
Agency, but we also receive requests for information, especially
from other European colleagues, for instance from France, or we
receive requests in cases where an alien has not got a visum,
i.e. it has been denied due to certain security reasons. There
is a special procedure with Schengen according to Article 17,
paragraph 2 of the Convention. If you are a visum applicant
from certain states with a terrorist background then you have
to undergo this procedure and your request is checked against
the data files of the security services. We sometimes receive
requests in those cases. We receive about 30 or 40 requests for
information per year in the case of Schengen.
Q279 Chairman: Do you have any views
on the process of negotiating Schengen II? Were your national
data protection authorities involved, and involved sufficiently
in your view?
Dr von Pommer Esche: Yes. We are involved both
via the international flow, via Brussels, via the Schengen Supervisory
Authority and also involved via our German channels, I would say.
In Germany it is the case that there are rules of procedure of
the Federal Government and when the Federal Government deals with
matters, bills and so on, which have any kind of data protection
implications then we have to be involved. We are well-informed
about these kinds of bills or projects.
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