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The amendment is clearly necessary. The recently published Ofsted/DCSF survey of nearly 150,000 children and young people across 145 local authorities shows that when asked, “How much do you feel children’s and young people’s views are listened to in the running of your school?”, 34 per cent of them replied “not very much” or “not at all” and a further 7 per cent had not got a clue one way or another. The amendment, if implemented effectively, should ensure that significantly more children are involved in decisions that affect them in their education. Above all, it brings us much closer to implementing the provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.
I may be going over the same ground as the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, but the Government will be drafting further regulations about issues in which children should be involved. Perhaps I can raise one or two points that the Minister may be able to address. First, when are the regulations likely to be issued? Secondly, does she agree that regulations should be broad in their nature? Will they cover the wide range of school functions, including matters related, for example, to the curriculum and schoolwide policy? Thirdly, the
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4.15 pm
Lord Elton: My Lords, I am so glad that the Government have recognised the importance of listening to children, 19 years after Recommendation 75 of the report into discipline in schools that I was fortunate enough to chair was enthusiastically accepted. One word of caution. I am sorry that it has to be in legislation. We are a litigious nation, and it would be very unfortunate if we were to have a rash of cases of parents saying, “You were not listening to my little Johnny”. Therefore, I am glad to see the flexibility written into the amendment—the variety of ways in which consultation can take place. I merely urge the Government to maintain that flexibility clearly in the regulations.
Baroness Verma: My Lords, I follow my noble friend Lord Elton. We on these Benches have spoken in support of the various permutations of the amendments at different stages of the Bill. I think that, on Report, we saw the simplest version and agreed that taking into account the ascertainable views of children was a desirable goal.
We have argued consistently throughout debates on the Bill and outside your Lordships' House that engaging with young people is a necessity. We have had long and thoughtful debates on the consequences that young people will suffer if they do not participate in education or training. None of us wants to see the worst-case scenario, which we have striven to avoid, in which young people will be punished if they insist in dropping away from their educational duties. It is my fervent hope that the engagement necessary to help those young people participate willingly and fully can be encouraged wherever possible. It should be quite plain that taking their views into account when decisions about their future are being taken is a good idea.
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, I am delighted to add my name to that of the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, in support of this group of amendments. I am sure that the whole House will agree that the voice of pupils and young people is extremely important. As my noble friend Lord Young, the Under-Secretary of State with responsibility for skills and apprenticeships, said on Report, the Government are committed to involving young people as widely as possible in matters that affect them. That is why, in the Education Act 2002, we required schools to have regard to statutory guidance about consulting pupils in decisions that affect them.
However, on Report, noble Lords made persuasive arguments for us to go further and set out the merits of placing a duty on schools to listen to the views of pupils. These included benefits for young people such as the opportunity to develop critical thinking, advocacy and influencing skills, thereby helping every child to
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The new duty in these amendments sends a clear message about the importance that we place on the involvement of pupils, which the Children’s Rights Alliance for England also eloquently advocates, in matters that affect their education and school life. Through regulations, we intend to require governing bodies to invite views on a core set of policy matters. As a minimum, schools should seek and take account of pupils’ views on policies on the delivery of the curriculum, behaviour, the uniform, school food, health and safety, equalities and sustainability, not simply on what colour to paint the walls.
We are not minded to require governing bodies to take account of pupils’ views on matters such as staff appointments or the school budget. I am sure noble Lords will understand that. As the Government have said previously, we are also keen to ensure that a duty on schools does not end up with centralised prescription. Schools will not be restricted in the matters on which they can invite the views of pupils. The regulations will simply set out the issues on which they must invite views. If they want to go further, they can.
Key to the success of this amendment will be effective implementation. We intend to consult schools, schools’ representative bodies, and children and young people on the matters that will be in the regulations and on which governing bodies should invite and take account of pupils’ views. We will of course satisfy the concerns of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, about consulting children and young people effectively. In line with the spirit of this amendment, it is important that time is taken for proper consultation on the regulations. We plan to undertake this during the spring term, which I believe means soon in Civil Service language.
The amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, on Report included a duty on local authorities to consult children when exercising their school functions. It is important that local authorities take account of young people’s views, as they are already required to do when preparing their children and young persons’ plan.
The Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Act 2007, which your Lordships’ House spent many hours considering last year, introduced a duty on local authorities to involve local people in decisions—the duty to which the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, asked me to point. This means that, from 2009, local authorities in England will be required to involve local people in the discharge of their functions where they consider it appropriate. The statutory guidance produced alongside this duty makes it clear that local people include children and young people, and that information should be produced in a way that is accessible for different groups.
Given this new duty, and the fact that we do not want to impose overlapping duties on local authorities, we do not believe that a new duty is required specifically for local authorities’ school functions in England. The
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I want to be clear about the strength of this new duty. The noble Baroness asked whether the duty to “consider” is as strong as duties to “have due regard to” the views of children in other legislation. I reassure her that it is, and that governing bodies must do more than simply solicit pupils’ views. In drafting the new duty, we have sought a balance in defining a responsibility that is both unambiguous and manageable for school governing bodies. After all, that is what we need to do for it to have the desired effect. To this end, statutory guidance made under subsection (5) of the proposed new clause to be inserted by Amendment No. 5 will help schools to understand the scope of the new duty and will set out examples of how best to involve pupils and invite their views.
School self evaluation, which informs Ofsted inspection, features the role pupils play in decision-making within the school as part of the school’s discharge of its duty. The department is working with Ofsted to produce a set of indicators which will be consulted on shortly—in fact, I think that they are being consulted on now. They will form the basis for monitoring and tracking how schools discharge their duty on a consistent and systematic basis.
The noble Baroness, Lady Howe, asked how we would make schools aware of these new developments. We intend to reissue the guidance, Working Together: Giving Children and Young People a Say, to all schools, with a letter from my honourable friend Sarah McCarthy-Fry, the Minister responsible for citizenship, setting out how the new duty reinforces our policy commitment to engaging pupils’ views and involvement, and inviting schools to participate in the consultation on the regulations, which will underpin the new duty. I am also advised that we will bring it to the attention of schools via email.
I think that I may have not answered a question.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, in order to assist the Minister, perhaps I may say that my question was about when this new clause would be enacted.
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, I am advised that we plan to enact this clause after the consultation. I can reassure the noble Baroness that we do not intend to drag our heels. With that, I hope noble Lords will feel able to support the amendment.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, I thank the Minister very sincerely for the helpful way in which she has answered my questions. I thank her for clarifying where the duty on local authorities lies in other legislation; for giving us examples of the functions that the duty would relate to in schools; and for telling us about the consultation and the date of that. She was very clear that the word “consider” is equivalent to the words “have regard to”. Finally, after the consultation, I
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On Question, amendment agreed to.
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendment No. 6:
6: After Clause 155, insert the following new Clause—
“Consultation of pupils: existing functions
In section 176 of the Education Act 2002 (c. 32) (consultation with pupils), subsection (1) is amended as follows—
(a) in paragraph (a) (duty of local education authorities), after “authority” insert “in Wales”,
(b) omit paragraph (b) (duty of governing bodies), and
(c) for “the Secretary of State (in relation to England) or the National Assembly for Wales (in relation to Wales)” substitute “the Welsh Ministers”.”
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Clause 162 [Constitution of schools forums]:
[Amendments Nos. 8 and 9 not moved.]
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendments Nos. 10 to 13:
10: Clause 170, page 112, line 11, at end insert—
“( ) sections (Governing bodies of maintained schools to invite and consider pupils’ views) and (Consultation of pupils: existing functions)(b) and (c);”
11: Clause 170, page 112, line 14, at beginning insert “the following paragraphs of Schedule 1—
(i) “
12: Clause 170, page 112, line 15, leave out “of Schedule 1 (and” and insert “, and
(ii) paragraph 78A,
(and”
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin moved Amendment No. 14:
14: Clause 170, page 112, line 27, leave out “The remaining” and insert “Subject to subsections (1) to (3), the”
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 1 [Minor and consequential amendments]:
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendment No. 15:
15: Schedule 1, page 129, line 3, at end insert—
“Education Act 2002 (c. 32)78A After section 210 of the Education Act 2002 (c. 32) insert—
“210A Regulations under power conferred on Welsh Ministers after implementation of Government of Wales Act 2006
(1) The power of the Welsh Ministers to make regulations under section 29A is exercisable by statutory instrument.
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(2) A statutory instrument containing any such regulations made by the Welsh Ministers is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of the National Assembly for Wales.
(3) The power of the Welsh Ministers to make regulations under section 29A includes power—
(a) to make different provisions for different cases or areas,
(b) to make provision generally or only in relation to specific cases, and
(c) to make such incidental, supplemental, saving or transitional provisions as the Welsh Ministers think fit.
(4) Nothing in this Act shall be regarded as affecting the generality of subsection (3).””
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Schedule 2 [Repeals and revocations]:
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendment No. 16:
16: Schedule 2, page 132, line 14, at end insert—
|
“In section 176, in subsection (1), paragraph (b) and the word “and” preceding it.” |
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass. In moving this Motion, I should like to detain your Lordships' House for a short while to say thank you to all those who have worked with us on the Bill. In particular, I should like to thank all Back-Bench Peers who have taken part in debates throughout this lengthy process, particularly the Back-Benchers on the Opposition Benches, who have been very patient with me as a new Minister, and the Cross-Benchers who have, as ever, shared their wisdom with us. Of course I would never want to forget the value of so many positive suggestions made by my noble friends on the Benches behind me. I offer warm thanks to Members on the Opposition Front Bench for their thoughtful and constructive contributions to the Bill. It has been a real honour to work with them. Lastly, I thank Anna Bush, Rupert Ainley and the very able Bill team who have supported me and my noble friends Lord Adonis and Lord Young. We are fortunate to have such able support in the department and I am very grateful to them.
This is an historic Bill. We are sending it back to the other place as a stronger, fuller and better Bill. As I said in closing the debate at Second Reading, I believe that it is a landmark Bill in education terms, possibly comparable with the Fisher Act of 1918. It is important that we press forward with it, given the climate we find ourselves in today.
Moved, That the Bill do now pass.—(Baroness Morgan of Drefelin.)
On Question, Bill passed, and returned to the Commons with amendments.
Counter-Terrorism Bill
4.31 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord West of Spithead): My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now further considered on Report.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
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The Financial Services Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Myners) moved Amendment No. 47A:
47A: After Clause 61, insert the following new Clause—
“Terrorist financing and money laundering
Schedule (Terrorist financing and money laundering) makes provision conferring powers on the Treasury to act against terrorist financing, money laundering and certain other activities.”
The noble Lord said: My Lords, this is a further step in my parliamentary induction. In moving Amendment No. 47A, I will speak to government Amendments Nos. 47B through to 47R, 49A, 61A and 61C. I will also comment on the non-government amendments in the group, Amendments Nos. 61AA to 61AP, 61B, and 61BA.
I should stress that I am aware that this is the first time that I stand before the House to discuss the Bill. I know that the Bill has undergone careful consideration during its passage to date and that there has been intense debate on a number of aspects of it both in this House and in the other place. In that context, I am conscious of the impact of moving at such a late stage these amendments, which add to the length and the scope of the Bill. This is clearly far from ideal and I assure noble Lords that I would not be doing so if I did not feel that the amendments are both necessary and urgent. As the House is aware, there is increasing international concern about the constantly evolving threats to national and international security by money-laundering, terrorist financing and the proliferation of nuclear, radiological, biological or chemical weapons.
The UK has been in the vanguard of international action through the UN, the EU and the Financial Action Task Force to tackle these threats. The Government are determined that we should continue in that way. We are seeking these late amendments to the Counter-Terrorism Bill in the light of shifting international political dynamics within the Financial Action Task Force that render our current powers less effective than we previously hoped. On 16 October 2008, the Financial Action Task Force issued a statement calling on its members to take further preventive action to protect their financial systems from the risks posed by terrorist financing deficiencies in Iran and money-laundering deficiencies in Uzbekistan.
As I set out in the letter that I deposited in the Library of the House last week, the FATF is the foremost international body in the development and promotion of national and international policies to combat money-laundering, terrorist financing and similar threats to international stability. It has 34 members and, through the affiliation of nine FATF-style regional bodies, over 175 jurisdictions are effectively included in its membership. We anticipate that there may be further calls for increased action at the FATF’s next meeting in February 2009.
I shall now explain why the Government are seeking urgently to augment their powers in the Bill. The power in the UK’s Money Laundering Regulations 2007 requires a decision by the FATF to formally invoke “countermeasures”. Keen students of the FATF will have noticed that the public statement issued by the FATF following its meeting in October did not use that term. The FATF works by consensus and, as with
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In order to mitigate any detrimental impact that tabling an amendment at this late stage may have, I have, in the short time available, attempted to address the situation by providing information to the House as well as arranging an open meeting to discuss the matter. I take this opportunity to thank noble Lords on the Conservative and Liberal Democrat Benches, as well as on the government Benches, for their constructive engagement to date, which has enabled us to refine our original proposals.
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