House of Lords Journal 241 (Session 2007-08)

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Monday 17 December 2007

The House met at 2.30pm.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Hayman, B. (Lord Speaker)

Addington, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anderson of Swansea, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.

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Arran, E.
Ashdown of Norton-sub-
Hamdon, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Best, L.
Bew, L.
Bhatia, L.
Billingham, B.
Bilston, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bottomley of Nettlestone, B.
Bowness, L.
Boyce, L.
Boyd of Duncansby, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradley, L.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Browne of Belmont, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnett, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butler-Sloss, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Surbiton, B.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Cathcart, E.
Cavendish of Furness, L.
Chandos, V.
Chapman, B.
Chester, Bp.
Chidgey, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Corston, B.
Cotter, L.
Courtown, E.
Coussins, B.
Cox, B.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Darzi of Denham, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Mauley, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dear, L.
Dearing, L.
Deech, B.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Ford, B.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fritchie, B.
Gale, B.
Garden of Frognal, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gilbert, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goodhart, L.
Goodlad, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamilton of Epsom, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harries of Pentregarth, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskins, L.
Hastings of Scarisbrick, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
James of Blackheath, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Jones of Cheltenham, L.
Jones of Whitchurch, B.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kalms, L.
Kerr of Kinlochard, L.
Kilclooney, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinnock, L.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Laird, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lee of Trafford, L.
Leicester, Bp.
Leitch, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levy, L.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
London, Bp.
Low of Dalston, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.

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Lyell of Markyate, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Malloch-Brown, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marland, L.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mawhinney, L.
Mawson, L.
Maxton, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Meacher, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moonie, L.
Moran, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Morris of Handsworth, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Morris of Yardley, B.
Morrow, L.
Moser, L.
Murphy, B.
Naseby, L.
Neuberger, B.
Neville-Jones, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
O’Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Ouseley, L.
Owen, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prashar, B.
Prosser, B.
Puttnam, L.
Quin, B.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Ramsbotham, L.
Rana, L.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees of Ludlow, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rowe-Beddoe, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Finsbury, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Snape, L.
Soley, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Southwell and Nottingham, Bp.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern of Brentford, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Taylor of Holbeach, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Teverson, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tonge, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trenchard, V.
Triesman, L.
Trimble, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turnbull, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Turner of Ecchinswell, L.
Tyler, L.
Uddin, B.
Vadera, B.
Verma, B.
Wakeham, L.
Walker of Aldringham, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Wallace of Tankerness, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warsi, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
West of Spithead, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Wilson of Tillyorn, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

Prayers were read by the Lord Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham.

1    Lord Stern of Brentford Sir Nicholas Herbert Stern, Knight, having been created Baron Stern of Brentford, of Elsted in the County of West Sussex and of Wimbledon in the London Borough of Merton, for life by Letters Patent dated 10 December 2007, was introduced between Lord Wilson

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of Tillyorn and Lord Turner of Ecchinswell, and made and subscribed the solemn affirmation. (See Appendix).

Select Committee Report

2    Human Rights
The following Report from the Joint Committee was made and ordered to be printed:

Legislative Scrutiny: (1) Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill; (2) Other Bills. (3rd Report, HL Paper 28)

Public Business

3    Pensions: national insurance years A question was asked by Baroness Hollis of Heigham and answered by Lord McKenzie of Luton.

4    Post Offices: closures A question was asked by Lord Roberts of Llandudno and answered by Lord Bach.

5    Zimbabwe: European Union-Africa summit A question was asked by Lord Hamilton of Epsom and answered by Lord Malloch-Brown.

6    Armed Forces: Territorial Army A question was asked by Earl Attlee and answered by Baroness Taylor of Bolton.

7    European Communities (Definition of Treaties) (Agreement on Enlargement of the European Economic Area) Order 2007 Baroness Royall of Blaisdon moved that the draft Order laid before the House on 15 November be approved. The motion was agreed to.

8    Financial Assistance Scheme (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2007 Lord McKenzie of Luton moved that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 20 November be approved. The motion was agreed to.

9    Climate Change Bill [HL] The bill was further considered in Committee, beginning with amendment 22. The House resumed after amendment 22.

10    European Council: 13-14 December 2007 The Lord President (Baroness Ashton of Upholland) repeated a ministerial statement made in the House of Commons.

11    Revenue and Customs: data loss Lord Davies of Oldham repeated a ministerial statement made in the House of Commons.

12    Climate Change Bill [HL] The bill was further considered in Committee, beginning with amendment 23. The House resumed after amendment 28.

13    Local Transport Bill [HL] The bill was reported from the Grand Committee with amendments. The bill, as amended, was ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 15)

14    Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses (Amendment) Regulations 2007 Lord Bach moved that the draft Regulations laid before the House on 28 November be approved. After debate, the motion was agreed to.

The House adjourned. The House resumed.

15    Climate Change Bill [HL] The bill was further considered in Committee, beginning with amendment 29. The House resumed after clause 5 was agreed to.

The House adjourned at 9.56pm until Tuesday 18 December at 11.00am.

Grand Committee Business

The Grand Committee met in the Moses Room at 3.30pm.

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Local Transport Bill [HL] The Grand Committee further considered the bill, beginning with amendment 64. An amendment was agreed to. It was ordered that the bill be reported with amendments.

The Committee adjourned at 7.17pm.


All statutory instruments laid before the House are accompanied by an Explanatory Memorandum presented by command of Her Majesty, unless otherwise indicated.

Instrument Withdrawn

The following instrument, laid before the House on 12 December, was withdrawn:

Draft Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Codes of Practice) Order 2008.

Command Papers

The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty:

1    Departmental Performance—

       (1)    Autumn Performance Report for 2007 of HM Revenue and Customs.     (7251)

       (2)    Autumn Performance Report for 2007 of the Cabinet Office.     (7254)

       (3)    Autumn Performance Report for 2007 of HM Treasury.     (7256)

2    Finance—Treasury Minutes on the Forty-Eighth to the Fifty-Fourth, and the Fifty-Sixth Reports from the Committee of Public Accounts, Session 2006-07.     (7276)

3    Education—Confidence in Standards: Regulating and developing qualifications and assessment: Government consultation document     (7281)

4    European Union—The Treaty of Lisbon amending the Treaty Establishing the European Union and the Treaty Establishing the European Community, including the Protocols and Annexes, and Final Act with Declarations.     (7294)

5    Prisoners—Agreement between the United Kingdom and Pakistan on the Transfer of Prisoners.     (7295)

6    Museums and Galleries—

      (1)    Accounts for 2006-07 of the Museum of London.

      (2)    Report and Accounts for 2006-07 of the Greater Manchester Museum of Science and Industry Trust.

      (3)    Accounts for 2006-07 of the Geffrye Museum Trust.

Affirmative Instruments

The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution:

1    (1)    Draft Cornwall (Structural Change) Order 2008

      (2)    Draft Shropshire (Structural Change) Order 2008

      (3)    Draft Northumberland (Structural Change) Order 2008

      (4)    Draft Wiltshire (Structural Change) Order 2008

      (5)    Draft County Durham (Structural Change) Order 2008

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laid under the Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Act 2007.

2    Draft Companies (Late Filing Penalties) and Limited Liability Partnerships (Filing Periods and Late Filing Penalties) Regulations 2008, laid under the Companies Act 1985.

3    Draft Statutory Auditors (Delegation of Functions etc.) Order 2008, laid under the Companies Act 1989.

4    (1)    Draft Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008

      (2)    Draft Large and Medium-sized Companies and Groups (Accounts and Reports) Regulations 2008

      (3)    Draft Companies Act 2006 (Amendment) (Accounts and Reports) Regulations 2008

      (4)    Draft Small Companies and Groups (Accounts and Directors’ Report) Regulations 2008

laid under the Companies Act 2006.

5    Draft Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Codes of Practice) Order 2008, laid under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

Negative Instruments

The following instruments were laid before the House:

1    (1)    School Organisation and Governance (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2007     (3464)

      (2)    School Organisation (Removal of Foundation, Reduction in Number of Foundation Governors and Ability of Foundation to Pay Debts) (England) Regulations 2007     (3475)

laid under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.

2    National Health Service (Primary Medical Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2007, laid under the National Health Service Act 2006.     (3491)

3    Statutory Auditors and Third Country Auditors Regulations 2007, laid under the European Communities Act 1972.     (3494)

4    (1)    Companies Act 2006 (Commencement No. 5, Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2007     (3495)

      (2)    Independent Supervisor Appointment Order 2007     (3534)

      (3)    Companies (Fees for Inspection and Copying of Company Records) (No. 2) Regulations 2007         (3535)

laid under the Companies Act 2006.

5    Gambling Act 2005 (Premises Licences) (Review) (Amendment) Regulations 2007, laid under the Gambling Act 2005.     (3539)

Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings

The following papers were laid before the House:

1    Report for the period 1 May 2006 to 30 April 2007 of the Export of Objects of Cultural Interest, laid under the Export Control Act 2002.

2    Report and Accounts for 2006-07 of the Probation Board for Northern Ireland, laid under the Probation Board (Northern Ireland) Order 1982.

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3    Draft Codes of Practice:

    (A)    for the Exercise by police officers of statutory powers of stop and search, and police officers and police staff of requirements to record public encounters

    (B)    for searches of premises by police officers and the seizure of property found by police officers on persons or premises

    (C)    for the detention, treatment and questioning of persons by police officers

    (D)    for the identification of persons by police officers

    (E)    on audio recording interviews with suspects

laid under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

4    Accounts for 2006-07 of the Dartford-Thurrock Crossing Charging Scheme, laid under the Trunk Road Charging Schemes (Bridges and Tunnels) (Keeping of Accounts) (England) Regulations 2003.

Instrument coming into operation before being laid

The Lord Speaker informed the House that she had received, under the proviso to section 4(1) of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946, notification that the following instrument had come into operation before being laid before Parliament, together with an explanation:

Export Restrictions (Foot-and-Mouth Disease) Regulations 2007, laid under the European Communities Act 1972.     (3513)
         14 December


ELIZABETH THE SECOND by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith To all Lords Spiritual and Temporal and all other Our Subjects whatsoever to whom these Presents shall come Greeting Know Ye that We of Our especial grace certain knowledge and mere motion in pursuance of the Life Peerages Act 1958 and of all other powers in that behalf Us enabling do by these Presents advance create and prefer Our trusty and well beloved Sir Nicholas Herbert Stern Knight to the state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Stern of Brentford of Elsted in Our County of West Sussex and of Wimbledon in Our London Borough of Merton

And for Us Our heirs and successors do appoint give and grant unto him the said name state degree style dignity title and honour of Baron Stern of Brentford to have and to hold unto him for his life

Willing and by these Presents granting for Us Our heirs and successors that he may have hold and possess a seat place and voice in the Parliaments and Public Assemblies and Councils of Us Our heirs and successors within Our United Kingdom amongst the Barons And also that he may enjoy and use all the rights privileges pre-eminences immunities and advantages to the degree of a Baron duly and of right belonging which Barons of Our United Kingdom have heretofore used and enjoyed or as they do at present use and enjoy

In Witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made Patent Witness Ourself at Westminster the 10th day of December in the fifty-sixth year of Our Reign