Select Committee on the Crossrail Bill Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1140 - 1159)

  1140. That is that one there (indicating)?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes.

  1141. Can we then look at the Maryland catchment area, again based on the LATS survey, and if we start with number 15, please?[18]

  (Mr Berryman) You can see the Maryland catchment area primarily will be a walk-on catchment from this northern part (indicating). People down here (indicating) will be much more likely to use Stratford because it is a much more convenient and better laid-out station, so we would expect that most of these are people who would walk on. People who are coming from further afield, as I say, would probably just stay on the bus and go to Stratford.

  1142. Then if we go to 18 that shows us, I hope, the Stratford catchment?[19]

  (Mr Berryman) Yes it does indeed, and there you can see where people have originated their journey when they are catching the train at Stratford. Some of these areas are slightly misleading because this ward has got virtually no population. That is the area which is being prepared for the Olympics.

  1143. That is the railway lands, is it not?
  (Mr Berryman) That is the railway lands, but you can see quite a lot of people even from the Forest Gate area and Maryland come to Stratford already, and from up this area (indicating) where the bus routes go right past Maryland, quite a lot of people still catch the train from Stratford.

  1144. If we then look at 13—apologies for the bizarre order, there was a reason for it once—that ought to be the Forest Gate catchment.[20]

  (Mr Berryman) That is right, it is pale blue.

  1145. We can see that and then what we have done at 17 is put them together so if we can have that, please.[21] So this is the Stratford and Forrest Gate catchments, and what does that tell you about the need for Maryland?

  (Mr Berryman) I should say it is the catchment for Forest Gate but not the Maryland catchment.

  1146. Stratford and Forest Gate?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, so what that is doing is showing that already most of the people within the potential catchment for Maryland are already using other stations, and we believe that will continue to be the case when Crossrail is complete.

  1147. Finally on this topic can we put up the photo of Stratford which we looked at yesterday with Mr West—have you got that easily to hand—and the photo at the bottom, can you just go through the facilities at Stratford that would be of use to people with restricted mobility.[22]

  (Mr Berryman) Clearly Stratford has been a reconstructed station as a result of the Jubilee Line Extension. It is going to have further reconstruction in preparation for the Olympics, but you have got very good bus drop-off points which are easily accessible to the station itself. This is the main entrance to the station on a level route with no obstructions. You have got a kiss-and-ride facility further back here (indicating) which also has got level access to the station. You have got a taxi drop-off point down here and also some disabled parking in this area (indicating) as well, so it has got every possible facility that you could think of if you were a mobility impaired person and you wanted to use it. Can I just make a point about mobility impairment. The overwhelming majority of people who are described as mobility impaired are not actually in wheelchairs or disabled; they are people with luggage and people with baby buggies and so on and so forth. As Mr Lieven said in her introduction, I was the project manager of the DLR Extension through Newham, which was built as the first fully accessible railway in London, and obviously I take a fatherly interest in how that railway has developed. I often go there and use it and I often see people using the lifts. I have never seen a person in a wheelchair using the lifts but I often see people with luggage and people with baby buggies and people of that sort using the lifts. That is very much the pattern which has been seen on other railways. The majority of mobility impaired passengers are actually people in those categories that I have just described. I am not saying they are any less worthwhile but it is just worth pointing out that it is that group of people which is a significant user.

  1148. MS LIEVEN: Can we then deal with a few additional points that came up yesterday before we come to our note. First of all—

  1149. LORD SNAPE: Excuse me a second, just staying with Maryland for a moment, Mr Berryman, is it the intention that all trains will stop at all stations at all times? There are no restricted hours planned for certain stations?
  (Mr Berryman) No.

  1150. LORD SNAPE: So on Crossrail all trains stop at all stations?
  (Mr Berryman) They do in the east; the arrangements in the west are slightly different.

  1151. LORD SNAPE: Just so far as the area we are talking about now?
  (Mr Berryman) In this area they do, yes.

  1152. MS LIEVEN: My Lord, Lord James asked a question yesterday about whether issues arose in relation to local stadia.[23] If we first locate where the stadia are and then you can talk through the security implications. We have got Maryland Station and Manor Park Station marked on here. West Ham, which I think is Upton Park, is somewhat to the south and I think very close to an underground station; is that right?

  (Mr Berryman) There is Upton Park underground station which is very close to West Ham and we know is used by the majority of visitors to the West Ham Stadium. We are not that far away but not particularly close. A crowd leaving West Ham by the time it got to any of our stations would be reasonably dispersed. I think cynical people would say there is never a crowd at Leyton Orient, but let us assume they do rather better than they have been doing and there is a crowd, again it is a good way to our railway so crowds would be dispersed, and the Arsenal Stadium is fairly remote.

  1153. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: Mr Berryman, it may be helpful to emphasise why I asked the question because it seemed to me that West Ham particularly does get 40,000 crowds and the Upton Park Tube Station is like the Black Hole of Calcutta on a particularly bad night, and you simply would not use it as a matter of choice on a happy day out, and if you were on the losing side particularly you would not want to be there. It seems to me that if you offer an alternative station nearby they are likely to flood over to it as a better way of getting out of the crush and that would be hugely antagonistic to any handicapped people trying to use it at that time, and what provisions could be made?
  (Mr Berryman) I see what you mean. I think that is a good general point in dealing with crowds generally.

  1154. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: I would be very worried about a wheelchair in the midst of an aggressive losing crowd.
  (Mr Berryman) I think that is something that happens as part of life if you are in a wheelchair; you have to learn those situations are difficult to deal with, whether you are in the station or whether you are just going along Romford Road.

  1155. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: My Lord Chairman, I probably have been remiss in not having declared a particular interest to this Committee.

  1156. CHAIRMAN: It is beginning to become apparent!

  1157. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: It is that I have been invited and am on the Bishop of Chelmsford's Religious Co-ordination Committee for the Olympics which therefore has an interest in all these areas on these particular issues.
  (Mr Berryman) I think that is very relevant to Stratford Station. I do not think the crowds from the Olympics—

  1158. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: It will be if they do not cure the radioactivity; they are all going to shine in the dark for ever more.
  (Mr Berryman) I doubt if the crowds coming from the Olympics will be quite as partisan as West Ham United supporters.

  1159. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: But there is a huge problem on the Upton Park Station which I thought might find a natural solution by gravitating to Maryland as a way of getting away from the problem, and that is what was worrying me.
  (Mr Berryman) I think it is more likely that some people will use Manor Park and Forest Gate Stations and conceivably Maryland as well. May I make a general point as well, my Lord. We have a number of security issues on the railway of which management of crowds after events is one. There are elements of the design which need to take that into account. We have appointed Arup's, a well-known firm of advisers in these matters, as our security consultants and they are working through these and other similar issues, particularly issues about terrorism, as we speak.



18   Crossrail Ref: P8, Maryland Station-AM Peak Access Catchment Plot-2001 LATS Data (NEWMLB-53_04-015) Back

19   Crossrail Ref: P8, Stratford Station-AM Peak Access Catchment Plot-2001 LATS Data (NEWMLB-53_04-018) Back

20   Crossrail Ref: P8, Forest Gate Station-AM Peak Access Catchment Plot-2001 LATS Data (NEWMLB-53_04-013) Back

21   Crossrail Ref: P8, Stratford & Forest Gate Stations-AM Peak Access Catchment Plot-2001 LATS Data (NEWMLB-53_04-017) Back

22   Crossrail Ref: P8, Crossrail Environmental Statement, Route Window NE1: Stratford Station (LINEWD-ES13-007) Back

23   Crossrail Ref: P11, Location of Football Stadia relative to Stations in LB of Newham (SCN-20080227-007) Back


 
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