Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1380
1380. That is right, there, which are accessing
(Mr Berryman) That is right, yes, there are.
1381. Can we just understand the bus accessibility
I have not heard that you have disputed anything that Mr West
had to say about the location of the bus stops at both Forest
Gate and Manor Park. Am I right?
(Mr Berryman) You are perfectly correct there.
We would not suggest that anybody would actually try to use the
bus to get from Manor Park Station to Forest Gate Station.
1382. So just to be clear, you are saying that
nobody would use the bus to get from Manor Park Station to Forest
Gate? In the residential areas surrounding Manor Park, you are,
however, relying on bus accessibility, are you not?
(Mr Berryman) We are. I would envisage that, if anyone lived
in the Manor Park area and wanted to get to the Forest Gate area,
they would actually use the bus rather than use the train, in
any event. All I am saying is that we would not imagine any sane
person would make a journey from Manor Park Station to Forest
Gate Station by bus, and why should they want to, unless they
happen to live immediately adjacent to Manor Park Station and
visit somebody immediately adjacent to Forest Gate Station?
1383. Yes, of course. Of course, one is looking
at the question of accessibility in a logical way and, in doing
so, can we just test some of your theories please. First, do you
accept that, if you are accessing from some of those catchments
that are identified on that plan to the south, you will have to
undertake a change of bus in order to get to Forest Gate?
(Mr Berryman) From this area (indicating)?
1384. Further south.
(Mr Berryman) To get to Forest Gate Station?
1385. Yes, go further south.
(Mr Berryman) These down here (indicating)?
1386. Yes, there and then north and then slightly
further north there (indicating).
(Mr Berryman) If you wanted to go to Forest Gate Station
and you wanted to go all the way by bus, you would have to change,
yes, you would, but why would you want to go from there to Forest
Gate Station, unless you were visiting someone who lived in the
immediate environs of Forest Gate Station?
1387. I understood that your point was that
you take the bus in order to get to an accessible station.
(Mr Berryman) That is right.
1388. We are not talking about people who might
be accessing the bus system in order to go and see people in and
around Forest Gate, we are talking about accessing the Crossrail
(Mr Berryman) But the buses that run down this road, Romford
Road, actually go to Stratford, and Stratford, as I think you
are aware, is an extremely accessible station.
1389. But looking at the catchment area for
Manor Park, and you have just pointed to some of those in the
southern areas, you would still be changing buses, would you not,
because you would take a bus from the south.
(Mr Berryman) From there (indicating)?
1390. Go left, if you will. Do you see there
is a road going north?
(Mr Berryman) I do.
1391. There is a bus that goes up there, is
(Mr Berryman) There is a bus that runs on that route.
1392. You would take that bus, would you not,
and then you would have to change in order to get on to the Romford
Road to go to Stratford?
(Mr Berryman) If you wanted to go to Stratford, you would.
If you wanted to go to Central London, you would be unlikely to
go up there and catch a bus down there, but you would be tempted
to go here (indicating) and catch the Underground at this point
on the District Line.
1393. Yes, but we can see that people are using
the Manor Park area, so they want to access that particular line,
do they not?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, as I say, there are a number of outliers
and you always get this in this kind of survey.
1394. You say a number of outliers, but I can
see three identified in a one-day survey undertaken in a three-hour
(Mr Berryman) Yes, but we do not know why those outliers
exist. There is always a small number of people who appear to
make what, at first sight, look to be illogical journeys, and
there are all kinds of reasons why that may happen. Perhaps someone
who lives here (indicating) needs to go into Central London and
has a partner who works up here somewhere (indicating), so the
partner gives them a lift there. There are all kinds of reasons
why people make journeys which, at first sight, do not seem logical.
1395. But, if you go to the main area around
Manor Park and you go to the south-east edge of that and then
go to, if you will, the centre of the biggest pink area where
the Romford Road goes, that distance, is it fair to say that that
is equivalent to the distance from Maryland to Stratford?
(Mr Berryman) About that, yes.
1396. So what you are saying is that, firstly,
the mobility-restricted are going to have to find a bus route
to get to the Romford Road, change buses and then how long is
that route from Romford Road to Stratford please?
(Mr Berryman) It depends on the traffic. It takes between
five and ten minutes.
1397. How long in terms of distance?
(Mr Berryman) It will be about three kilometres.
1398. Have you done that bus trip?
(Mr Berryman) I have.
1399. Have you done it in the a.m. peak?
(Mr Berryman) No, I have done it in the inter-peak, about
four o'clock in the afternoon.
34 Crossrail Ref: P8, Manor Park-Local bus services