Select Committee on the Crossrail Bill Minutes of Evidence

Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1400 - 1419)

  1400. And the final ten minutes—is that an inter-peak figure that you have given on the basis of the information you have had?
  (Mr Berryman) The day I caught it, it took five minutes, I timed it. There is the bus stop just here (indicating), I caught it there and I went down to Stratford.

  1401. On the inter-peak?
  (Mr Berryman) That was about four o'clock in the afternoon. If I may just make a point relating to what you have just said, if you were a person living here (indicating), it would not be very convenient, but it would be no more convenient for you to get to Manor Park than to get up to the bus route that runs down here (indicating). It is further away in fact.

  1402. Did you say "no more convenient"?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, it would be just as convenient to get to the bus route which is here (indicating) as it would to get to Manor Park Station.

  1403. So you say that that extra distance that you have just identified from the Romford Road to Manor Park means that, on balance, it is better to take the bus and go all the way down to Stratford. Is that right?
  (Mr Berryman) No, I am not saying that. What I am saying is that there is no particular advantage for someone who lives here (indicating) who needs step-free access from going to Manor Park as opposed to going here (indicating) and catching the bus.

  1404. Well, it does seem to be that you are saying that the extent of difference between the Romford Road and Manor Park distance is something that would inevitably lead somebody to reach a conclusion to catch the bus and go right the way down to Stratford.
  (Mr Berryman) I am not saying that at all. All I am saying is that somebody who was disabled getting from there (indicating) to there (indicating) or getting from there (indicating) to there (indicating), in practice, there is no difference between them. They will be able to get to the bus stops on this just as easily as they could get to Manor Park Station.

  1405. But of course we are in agreement that you did not disagree with what Mr West said about the accessibility of those various bus stops, are we not?
  (Mr Berryman) I do not recall him saying anything about the accessibility of bus stops on this road and I can tell you from personal experience of personally having been there that the bus stops down here are accessible.

  1406. Let's carry on to Maryland then please. In terms of Maryland and its significance, you explained this morning about why it was that there was not a very good rail case for Maryland to be connected into the Crossrail system. Is it right, Mr Berryman, that Maryland was identified as one of the stations in the early 1990s Crossrail Bill?
  (Mr Berryman) I am afraid I was not involved with the project at that time.

  1407. Do you know the answer to that question, Mr Berryman?
  (Mr Berryman) No, I do not.

  1408. MR REED: If it was included in that, that would be an indicator of it being an appropriate stopping place.

  1409. CHAIRMAN: I do not think there is any use asking "if". If he does not know, he does not know.

  1410. MR REED: Very good, my Lord. Can I ask this then: if the case for stopping at Maryland was so negative, Crossrail would not have reached the conclusion that it was appropriate to stop there, would it?
  (Mr Berryman) That was the conclusion we reached.

  1411. That it was so negative that they should not stop there?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, that is right. It was as a result of lobbying by your clients that we agreed to put it back in.

  1412. As a result of what, did you say?
  (Mr Berryman) Lobbying by your clients.

  1413. So you say that there was no real case for putting forward Maryland. Is that right?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, that is right.

  1414. You decided of course that Forest Gate was an appropriate place to have full accessibility—is that correct—on the basis of the analysis that you told us about this morning?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes.

  1415. On the basis that £12 million would have to be spent to do so?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, that is right.

  1416. That was on the basis, as we saw this morning, of some 5,000 people expected to access during the a.m. peak. Correct?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, that is right.

  1417. What you told us this morning was that you did a rough assessment, if I can put it like that, or a "qualitative assessment", I think, is the way you put it, Mr Berryman, of comparing the cost situation with the numbers situation. Yes?
  (Mr Berryman) That is right.

  1418. Can I just look at that in the context please of Maryland. Maryland of course has 2,000 people in the a.m. peak, does it not?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes.

  1419. The cost of upgrading Maryland is supposed to be £4 million.
  (Mr Berryman) About that.

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