Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1420
1420. So, if one was looking at it on that qualitative
basis that you gave evidence on this morning, it would be comparative
with the Forest Gate situation, would it not?
(Mr Berryman) A similar ratio, yes.
1421. Looking at the question of the feasibility
of undertaking those works that would have to be undertaken, and
you gave evidence on that this morning, you are not saying, are
you, that it is unfeasible to undertake those works in engineering
terms? I think, from what Ms Lieven said yesterday, you never
do say that it is unfeasible.
(Mr Berryman) I never do say that it is unfeasible; it is
always a question of how much it costs.
1422. Indeed, and you have obviously given the
evidence of £4 million. Tell me, the £1 million, if
I have understood it correctly, would be needed for the lifts
themselves? Have I understood that correctly?
(Mr Berryman) For the actual fabric of the lift, yes, that
is £1 million in round figures, but to install lifts obviously
involves a lot of things other than the fabric of the lift. You
have to build a lift tower, you have to provide power, you have
to provide various other bits and pieces that they need, you have
to have the foundations for the lift tower and you have to have
a landing at the top. The overall cost of just over £4 million
includes those elements as well as for the actual lift car and
1423. What is the total amount then that is
referable to the lifts please?
(Mr Berryman) Well, it is about a million out of the 4.5
1424. I thought it was a million. It is about
(Mr Berryman) Yes.
1425. So 3.5 million, then, is referable to
the ramp, is that right?
(Mr Berryman) No. I thought I had just explained a moment
ago that the cost of putting lifts in is not just a function of
the cost of the car and the lift mechanism; there is also the
tower which is needed to support the rails on which the lift runs,
there are the foundations for that tower, there is the landing
at the top, the provision of power for the lift and various ancillary
services required for lifts to deal with things like alarms and
so on, which all add to the cost. What I am saying to you is the
total cost of doing everything at Maryland to put lifts in would
be about £4.5 million, and I do not have a breakdown of that
figure as to how much would be the ramp but I would be surprised
if the ramp was more than half a million, very surprised.
1426. CHAIRMAN: It is £4.5 million
(Mr Berryman) No, my Lord. £4.5 in total for two lifts
plus the ramp.
1427. BARONESS FOOKES: And all the stuff
you need to go with it.
(Mr Berryman) I do not have the figures to hand but if the
ramp is more than a few hundred thousand pounds I would be very
1428. MR REED: Let's be clear, that is
a cost that is necessarily going to be incurred at any station
that has a lift system put in, is that right?
(Mr Berryman) If it has to have two lifts and a footbridge,
yes, that would be the case.
1429. Because what one is dealing with at Maryland
is the simplest situation for dropping a lift down on to the platform?
(Mr Berryman) No. The simplest situation is where you have
an island perform. A good example is at Brentwood where you have
one platform with two tracks, one on either side. In those cases
you only need to put one lift down. Where you have platforms on
either side of the tracks you have to put two lifts down.
1430. I see. It is the simplest of the two lift
situations, can I put it like that?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, it is.
1431. Thank you very much. Can we turn now to
the question of distance to other stations in the context of Maryland?
You, of course, have pointed to the relationship of Stratford
to Maryland. First, have you done the walk from Maryland to Stratford?
(Mr Berryman) No, I have never walked that.
1432. Have you taken a bus trip from Maryland
(Mr Berryman) Yes, I have done that.
1433. Did you do that in the peak hour?
(Mr Berryman) I do not think so. I cannot quite remember
what time of day it was. Probably not in a peak hour.
1434. Stratford, can we be in agreement please,
is an extremely busy station?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, we can.
1435. And if we look at slide 019 again, please,
we can see the scale of difference between the stations that are
there identified and Stratford.
It is way off the scale at some 50,800 in the three hour am peak.
(Mr Berryman) That is right.
1436. Can we also be clear that there are going
to be a good many people coming to this station because of the
(Mr Berryman) Well, assuming that the Olympics takes place
in 2012 it will be a long time over by the time anyone comes to
use Crossrail or this station, because we do not expect to open
1437. I mean the Olympic Village. I should have
(Mr Berryman) You mean the legacy from the Olympics?
(Mr Berryman) I see. That is taken into account in those
figures. As I say, when we do our modelling we take into account
proposed developments in the area of the station as far as we
practically can, and in this case it certainly takes into account
the new shopping centre that is going to be constructed at Stratford,
which is very large, and also what is currently proposed to be
the Olympic Village, which will become a residential area, so
that is already taken into account.
1439. Can you tell me, please, whether the fact
that Stratford is a busy station, as we agreed, is a relevant
matter to take into account when understanding the degree to which
it would be an attractive location or mode for the disabled or
(Mr Berryman) It is a relevant consideration but I think
it is important to say that the station has been sized to take
account of the anticipated passenger flows, and I cannot remember
whether I used the bus from Maryland in the peak or the off-peak
but I can tell you I have used Stratford station in the peak many
times and Stratford bus station in the peak many times, and it
copes very well with the already high flows of passengers.
35 Crossrail Ref: P8, 2016 AM Peak 3 Hour Passenger
Forecast (Excluding internal interchange movements (NEWMLB-53_04-019) Back