Examination of Witnesses (Questions 5160
- 5179)
5160. Entitlement to protection under the settlement
policy set out in the Information Paper is, however, not dependent
upon having entered into a Deed. That is made clear in the Paper
itself. The reason for that is that the settlement policy under
the Information Paper forms part of the Promoters' environmental
minimum requirements to which we have referred you already, and
that is explained in Information Paper D2 and, in particular,
in paragraphs 4.1 and 4.2 which deal with controls which lie outside
the Bill itself, but are particularly focused on property mitigation
and protection of which the settlement procedure forms an important
component. Compliance with the environmental minimum requirements
is to be secured by the Promoters by contract with the nominated
undertaker, as is explained in paragraphs 2.4 and 2.5 of that
Information Paper.
5161. Finally, on a question raised by Lady
Fookes, I think, on Tuesday, the procedures described in Information
Paper B3 are intended to secure compliance with undertakings and
assurances, and, my Lady, within that Information Paper you will
find a description of the terminology that has been used, that
is to say, undertakings and assurances, commitments, which is
the genus, if you will, of which undertakings and assurances are
species, to use the biological analogy. You will also find an
explanation of compliance arrangements and also of the contents
of the register of undertakings and assurances and the fact that
it is a document which, as my Lord, the Lord Chairman, observed,
is dynamic in the sense that it is being updated from time to
time, and a final version of that will obviously be issued at
around the time at which the Bill secures Royal Assent.
5162. I ought to make clear in answer to one
question, which I think was raised for me by my Lord, Lord Brooke,
and that concerned how the settlement policy was dealt with under
the register of undertakings and assurances. I have a note in
relation to that and I can try to --- I have mislaid it. I have
found it. The position is that the settlement policy, as set out
in the Information Paper D12, is in its entirety included in the
register as entry 22 on page three and there is reference to the
Deed as entry 23 on the same page. You should see those references
in front of you. Essentially, the settlement policy and the Settlement
Deed procedure are enshrined within the environmental minimum
requirements on a two-fold basis, both by inclusion within the
register and, as I have explained previously, as part of the extra
bill controls which form the property mitigation arrangements
which will be secured by contract between the Promoter and the
nominated undertaker. I hope that deals with the question as to
compliance procedures which was raised before me, I think, on
Tuesday this week.
5163. It may also be helpful, and this will
be my last point I think before I read out my concluding paragraph,
just to explain that the relationship between policies set out
in Information Papers and undertakings or assurances contained
on the register is as follows: in general we have adopted the
approach of producing Information Papers setting out our policy
or general approach to a subject or issue and if there are what
we regard as being commitments, that is to say assurances or undertakings
or both, in the Information Papers, then they are extracted and
placed on the register in their own right. For example, a topic
Mr Thornely-Taylor has dealt with in evidence, on groundborne
noise and vibration, Information Paper D10 sets out our policy
and approach but the actual commitments in that paper to do certain
things such as to adopt a maintenance criteria, those have been
extracted and put on the register as well. If it is of interest,
and I will say on the record, those commitments in relation to
groundborne noise and vibration are found at entries 18 to 21
and at 459 to 460 within the register. The settlement approach
is slightly different because rather than try to extract a multitude
of separate commitments from the Information Paper on settlement
we thought it sensible simply to include the whole of that Information
Paper including the Deed as two entries within the register of
undertakings and assurances and that, as you have seen from entries
22 and 23, is precisely what we have done. The reason for that
was we felt if we included the whole of that policy in its entirety
and modern job lot that would give the maximum reassurance to
those affected, or potentially affected, by the impact of ground
movement, that the entirety of that policy procedure was enshrined
in the Secretary of State's commitments, the Promoter's commitments,
in that way. I hope that is tolerably clear and, having explained
that, I can simply say in conclusion, and for the reasons I have
given, our submission is the undertaking sought by Mr Wheeler,
which you recall he read out to you at the close of his presentation
on Tuesday which in effect would be to repeat the Phase 3 Stage
1 settlement process in a modified form, we say is not justified
and, that being the case, would simply add unnecessary costs to
the project itself.
5164. Those are our submissions in relation
to that, the issues raised by Mr Wheeler, unless of course there
are any questions arising?
5165. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr Mould.
5166. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: Just
a brief question. I think you covered this before, are you going
to notify all those people who fall within the 10mm boundaries
of the need for them to enter into a Deed of Settlement?
5167. MR MOULD: I think the answer is
yes and the purpose of the guide is to achieve that. What I would
expect to happen in practice is that the guide will be sent to
all those who occupy buildings within that location.
5168. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: Can
you explain in paragraph 14, which helpfully you have got up on
the screen where it says: "Entitlement to protection under
the settlement policy set out in D12 is not dependent upon having
entered into a deed", but it seems to my mind there is a
clear advantage in entering into a Deed of Settlement.[26]
Am I right in assuming that?
5169. MR MOULD: I think you are and the
reason why is the reason I have given, it provides you with a
direct contractual relationship with the nominated undertaker
and one only has to think for a moment about the practical advantages
of that. It is that you will feel that you can speak directly
to the nominated undertaker and say, "Look, I would like
to have a look at the report which you prepared in relation to
my building. I would like the following points perhaps to be revisited.
Do you think you might do so?" As I say, I will make very
clear, I shall be very surprised and unhappy if he did but if
he was to express some reluctance about that without good reason,
then one would have the comfort of saying, "All right then,
if you won't do it, I shall go off and seek impartial, independent
information on that point from an independent expert". I
think there is that advantage. We are trying to reassure people
that if they do not take advantage of the Deed then they will
not lose the benefits of the settlement policy. Speaking for myself,
if I were such a building owner the first thing I would do whilst
Royal Assent is being obtained is to say, "Can I have a deed,
please?"
5170. BARONESS FOOKES: What is the route
for those who do not enter into such a deed of settlement, which
you are strongly advocating, if they are unhappy or dissatisfied?
5171. MR MOULD: They would then need
to approach the Department. There may be a number of routes. Strictly,
in the Information Papers which I have mentioned, you will find
that the Promoters will secure by contract with a nominated undertaker
compliance with, amongst other things, the policy set out in the
settlement paper. One's first port of call would be to get in
touch with a civil servant in the Department, to say, "Look,
this has not happened in the way in which it should. Could you
please get on to the nominated undertaker and sort it out."
Under the terms of our emerging Community Relations Strategy,
we are going to have a local framework of liaison and points of
contact. People who might feel, if they have a relatively minor
concern, that ringing up someone in the Department for Transport
is perhaps a little bit excessive will be able to raise that concern
locally.
5172. BARONESS FOOKES: Is that the one-stop
shop that has been spoken of?
5173. MR MOULD: That would be the obvious
way of dealing with it in the context of Spitalfields, yes. In
the cases of minor damage, for example, there is a small claims
procedure that will be operating during the course of the construction
works. That can be found explained in another Information Paper—I
think in the F series of Information Papers. I will be corrected
if I am wrong, but there is an arrangement as well which will
be put in place so that people can go to an identified officer,
a complaints commissioner.
5174. BARONESS FOOKES: That would be
after they have gone through the normal procedures, if one may
call them that. Is that is the appeal procedure, going to the
complaints commissioner?
5175. MR MOULD: I will check that because
I would not want to undersell what we are doing.
5176. BARONESS FOOKES: No. You also want
to make it clear for those who might be affected.
5177. MR MOULD: This is F5, paragraph
2.1: "For those who are unhappy with an aspect of the construction
of Crossrail the first step would be to complain to the Secretary
of State or the nominated undertaker. It is where the complainant
feels that the complaint has not been satisfactorily addressed
that the complaints commissioner has a role to play." Lady
Fookes, you are absolutely right. The first port of call is either
the Department or the nominated undertaker and it is in the case
of the latter, as I say, that the Community Relations Strategy
envisages that there will be local points of contact. We have
mentioned the one-stop shop which is, I suggest, likely to be
the emanation of that. Alternatively, of course, if we do in due
time have a Liaison Panel that is functioning to everybody's satisfaction—which
we very much hope we shall—that would be another place to
which one could go, so that the Liaison Panel could say, "We
think we ought to look at our own routes" or whatever it
may be.
5178. BARONESS FOOKES: You can see that
from the point of view of the ordinary person saying "Contact
the Secretary of State" sounds rather alarming.
5179. MR MOULD: I suppose those of us
in the know would read that as "Contact the Department and
speak to a civil servant."
26 Crossrail Ref: P38, Ground Settlement-Note of Promoter's
Closing Submissions (SCN-20080313-028) Back
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