Examination of Witnesses (Questions 8000
- 8019)
8000. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: I
was hoping that we could bring this to a conclusion really in
the light of what Lady Fookes said really, that this matter has
been raised, that we should place on record the Heads of Terms
that were read out to us and, in the light of the sort of consequential,
which is a sort of even more distant hypothetical, if you do not
mind my saying, and that is what would happen if an operator or
somebody with a maintenance contract were declared insolvent,
well, again I think that is even more difficult for us to refer
to, except to place on record that again that has been referred
to, but I do not think we can helpfully make any ruling except
to note that, with the existence of other similar schemes, this
has not arisen. The only time I can recall where it did arise,
the Government did step in.
8001. CHAIRMAN: I think that is a very
helpful observation, Lord Young. Mr Scott, can we really take
this any further? It has been very fully discussed and it will
all be in the transcript and you have seen the document to which
Mr Mould referred. The practicalities of something like this happening
are that the Government would step in, as it has done in the past.
I am not sure that it is going to be possible for us to suggest
to the House as a whole that there is any amendment to the Bill
which either could, or should, be inserted to deal with an unending
collection of eventualities which might happen in the not too
distant, or possibly very distant, future about what happens to
Crossrail.
8002. MR SCOTT: My Lord Chairman, I can
understand that and I am very grateful to Lady Fookes for saying
what she did about your Petitioners doing what we can in the circumstances,
and I am very grateful to you for pressing the point with Mr Mould.
We are aware of the difficulties here. It has to be seen in the
context of the efforts that have been made in recent times to
persuade us to withdraw our Petition in return for a particular
agreement, and you have seen the terms of that agreement, and
it was the ability of the Promoter to get out from under that
agreement that has been your Petitioners' concern here, my Lord.
8003. CHAIRMAN: Can we take this any
further? I doubt it.
8004. MR SCOTT: May I just confer for
a moment?
8005. CHAIRMAN: Please do. (After a pause)
8006. MR SCOTT: There is one matter in
relation to the longer term which we are just trying to sort out.
8007. CHAIRMAN: Do you want a short adjournment
to deal with it?
8008. MR SCOTT: It may be advisable.
8009. CHAIRMAN: It is probably easier
than trying to talk in whispers at the back of the room. How long
do you want?
8010. MR SCOTT: Ten minutes, my Lord.
8011. CHAIRMAN: The point, I think, that
we are reaching is this: that the Committee is probably not going
to be able to suggest a particular form of words which would go
into the Bill. The point you have raised is of course particularly
significant to yourselves, but it is significant to everybody
who lies over, or adjacent to, the route of Crossrail where it
goes underground and, therefore, it would have to be in general
terms. One way of dealing with it which we think might be possible
is that we put into our Report the necessity for the Secretary
of State to ensure that there is a continuing responsibility for
the construction, maintenance and running of Crossrail for as
long as it goes on, and that will be a matter that concerns everybody
whose property would otherwise be affected by a failure. That
is the sort of thing that we have in mind, but I will still give
you ten minutes.
8012. MR SCOTT: Thank you.
At 12.30 pm Counsel and Parties are directed
to withdraw and at 12.40 pm are again called in.
8013. CHAIRMAN: I think we will proceed.
There was a slight pause in order to ensure that this goes on
to the transcript, because many people may want to read the transcript
on this particular topic, and so will the Secretary of State and
successive Secretaries of State, so it is important that we get
it all down.
8014. Now, how has your discussion gone?
8015. MR SCOTT: I should say at once
how grateful we are to your Lordships for considering this matter,
indeed for hearing us in general, and particularly grateful for
the suggestion you made earlier on and the importance of putting
this on the record, as you say, both for present Secretary of
State and for future Secretaries of State.
8016. We, I am delighted to say, have had very
useful discussions both out in the corridor and just now and it
does seem, apart from crossing some Ts and dotting some Is we
are well advanced in terms of finalising the agreement to which
reference has been made. We would still be happy to see any of
your lordships at the house if you want to come and see what we
have discussed today but, apart from that, it is back to Mr Mould.
8017. CHAIRMAN: Mr Scott, your journey
has been well worthwhile because you have raised matters which
I know are not only of particular concern to yourselves but of
concern to everybody affected by Crossrail, and in the form in
which it has emerged this morning I do not think it has previously
been discussed, so you have done everybody a service by putting
this problem to us and we have got, I think, as far as we can
by way of a solution.
8018. MR SCOTT: Yes, my Lord Chairman.
I think in these terms that is right.
8019. CHAIRMAN: If that is generally
agreed, then, I believe that your Petition has been well worthwhile
and we are very grateful to you for coming.
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