Examination of Witnesses (Questions 9120
9120. I have not discovered anybody whose it
is yet! I suppose what I am trying to get a view from you on is
that the timetabling work has been going on for how long?
(Mr Garratt) Seven years in a sense.
9121. Seven years?
(Mr Garratt) Yes.
9122. Crossrail is supposed to open in nine
or ten years' time?
(Mr Garratt) Yes, nine years.
9123. Given all the discussion that has taken
place, and I know you were not here this morning, but since you
have arrived, on access options and whether more modelling is
required before a decision is made about building extra loops
and everything, what is your view on the whole timescale? If it
has taken seven years to get to this timetable already, how much
more timetabling can be done before the decision is required whether
or not to build these loops and then build them before Crossrail
(Mr Garratt) Well, I think that one should
lose patience at some point.
9124. Should or should not?
(Mr Garratt) Should lose patience. My
concern, and I have several concerns here, but particularly it
is in terms of providing the freight industry with certainty.
I agree with much of what has been said this afternoon in fact
by both sides, that clearly some rail enhancements, or, in my
view, all of them, will be required in order to provide the functionality
that is required to meet those requirements up on the screen.
The difficulty is the uncertainty of not knowing that they are
going to proceed, because first of all it creates investment uncertainty
for operators like Freightliner; it creates uncertainty for terminal
operators and future terminal operators because the freight growth
that we are talking about here, which most commentators have signed
up to, so to speak, require not just operator investment but terminal
operator investment. To not know whether various key pieces of
infrastructure are going in which particularly affect terminals,
I think, is really worrying. It is how to create inertia in the
rail freight industry.
9125. That was a useful opinion. Could you take
us through the next group of three slides, which should be coloured
maps and explain to the Committee what they mean?
(Mr Garratt) I hope the titles are reasonably self-evident.
They are, in a sense, for the record, to summarise the exercise
we did. These are the current freight paths in the working timetablelast
year's working timetablealong the different elements of
the Crossrail corridor: Great Eastern on the right-hand side,
passing along the North London Line and the Barking-Gospel Oak
routes and merging into the Great Western on the left-hand side.
9126. The numbers on the line represent what?
(Mr Garratt) The numbers on the lines
represent the number of paths in 2007 in the timetable.
9127. In each direction?
(Mr Garratt) In the two directions, the
sum of bothtwo plus two equals four and four is shown.
9128. Go on to the next one.
(Mr Garratt) This is the demand. So you see
a figure, for example, of 205 just to the Forest Gate junction.
This reflects the demand scheduled that we handed over to Crossrail
to timetable test. The final slide in this series simply shows
9129. So 35 shows the difference.
(Mr Garratt) Yes. That is right. It shows the
extra paths that are required, and just to reiterate Crossrail
found that paths could be found with no extra trains and no extra
infrastructure, or most of those paths, I should say, not all
of them, because one of the conclusions of this exercise was that
more capacity would be required in addition to this, and that
takes us on to the Felixstowe-Nuneaton-type issues.
9130. So, Mr Garratt, on to your last slide
which is number 36.
You appear at many planning inquiries, do you not?
(Mr Garratt) I have appeared at planning inquiries
9131. So you are probably more of an expert
on that and Lindsay Durham is probably more of an expert at running
trains than you. That is why you are both here. Could you explain
(Mr Garratt) I think these are well-understood
principles and we have already discussed them this afternoon.
We have here a Promoter who will have an impact on other people's
business and other people's activities, and it is a well-established
principle that the Promoter compensates or mitigates for those
measures, and we have heard Hutchison Ports explain how they have
had to go through that sort of process themselves. In my view,
Crossrail would have the neutral effectindeed, they succeeded
in demonstrating the neutral effectif the rail enhancements
in the Bill are all built, the North London Line and the Gospel
Oak Lines are fully upgraded and have timetables compatible with
the Great East main line. Just to make a point in that respect:
of course, there are other things going on with the North London
Line and, in a sense, we are taking it on trust that the measures
taken in upgrading the North London Line in timetabling terms
will be compatible with the Crossrail provisions.
9132. Could you just explain to the Committee
the importance of having an integrated timetable between one line
and the next-door one?
(Mr Garratt) Yes, certainly. We are aware
that the North London Line upgrade will include resignalling which
will provide, in principle, more capacitythe ability to
pass more trains. However, it is, in a sense, a no-brainer that
the trains leaving the Crossrail network have to be able to fit
into the timescales on the North London Linei.e. the gaps
between the passenger trains have to be compatible.
9133. There is nowhere to park the trains in
(Mr Garratt) There is some provision for
parking trains in between, but not that generous.
9134. Final question then: when do you think
the timetable work will be complete to give everyone confidence
as to whether infrastructure should or should not be built and
whether that is the stuff that we are asking for today or other
(Mr Garratt) I cannot answer that question.
All we can
9135. I am looking for your opinion.
(Mr Garratt) My opinion is that we seem
to be some way off it because the testing of the timetable clearly
takes some time.
9136. LORD BERKELEY: Thank you very much,
Mr Garratt. I have finished.
9137. CHAIRMAN: You are going to start,
9138. MR TAYLOR: My Lord Chairman, I
can do. I may finish in 15 minutes but I cannot promise that.
I will do my best.
9139. CHAIRMAN: I think you might as
well start, do you not?
Cross-examined by MR
43 Committee Ref: A52, Current freight paths (2007)
per average day-Sum of both directions (LINEWD-34_05-034) Back
Committee Ref: A52, Freight paths required in 2015-Per average
day-Sum of both directions (LINEWD-34_05-035) Back
Committee Ref: A52, Extra freight paths required 2007 to 2015-Per
average day-Sum of both directions (LINEWD-34_05-036) Back
Committee Ref: A52, Crossrail's duty to compensate for impact