Examination of Witnesses (Questions 10760
- 10779)
10760. MR DINGEMANS: I have a supplementary
on page 141 of the bundle. You were asked about another scheme.
Is that proposed scheme at the bottom left hand corner of the
map, as we look at it?
(Mr Lawrence) Yes, it is.
10761. Effectively four rectangles, and it is
the first of those counting from left to right?
(Mr Lawrence) Yes, and if you come across to the triangle
between Snow Hill [and Smithfield Street] that is it as well.
10762. And the main meat market is between that
one and the next one [East Poultry and Grand Avenue].
(Mr Lawrence) That is right.
10763. And what is in the middle building?
(Mr Lawrence) That is the Poultry Market.
10764. And is all of that part empty as well,
is that right?
(Mr Lawrence) No. That is all occupied by tenants and Corporation's
works.
10765. And at the moment does the proposed scheme
have planning permission?
(Mr Lawrence) I think it has gone through the inquiry stage
and they are just waiting for the result of the inquiry.
10766. And are your lawyers talking with them?
(Mr Lawrence) Yes.
10767. MR DINGEMANS: Thank you very much.
Might Mr Lawrence be released?
10768. CHAIRMAN: Yes, certainly.
The witness withdrew
MR PHILIP
ANDRADE, Sworn Examination
by MR DINGEMANS
10769. MR DINGEMANS: Mr Andrade, I think
the vast majority of the questions you were going to deal with
have now been picked up and answered by others, but can I show
you your witness statement which is paragraphs 1-10? I think you
have read that outside, is that right?
(Mr Andrade) Yes.
10770. And is that witness statement true to
the best of your knowledge, information and belief?
(Mr Andrade) Yes.
10771. And can you just tell their Lordships
what your business is?
(Mr Andrade) We are wholesale traders in pork, lamb and mutton,
carcass trade.
10772. And so far as you are concerned, are
you now at the market every day of the week?
(Mr Andrade) No. In the last three weeks I have stopped going
in. I am still a director; still a shareholder.
10773. MR DINGEMANS: Thank you very much.
I am not sure there are any other specific matters that need to
be raised, but Mr Andrade is here to answer any questions in relation
to market operations.
Examined by THE
COMMITTEE
10774. CHAIRMAN: What time of the morning
do you stop?
(Mr Andrade) We stop
trading by about eight o'clock in the morning but we then start
boning out meat, and we will have one or two members of staff
staying on to bone out some legs of pork or shoulders of lamb
or mutton, so that the operation for the next day is moved forward
a stage or two. So whilst we are not trading very much after eight
o'clock we are often quite busy for at least a couple of hours
later.
10775. You still have carcasses —
(Mr Andrade) Yes, we are full of carcasses.
10776. LORD BROOKE OF ALVETHORPE: Do
you have insurance?
(Mr Andrade) We have insurance, and I believe we have deterioration
of stock as part of that but that has been very difficult to utilise,
to gain benefit from. We have found it very hard to claim when
we have refrigeration breakdown and you have to stipulate the
cause. It is a nightmare, my Lord. It really is.
10777. Do you use the Government inspectors
in support of your claims?
(Mr Andrade) Yes, you have to authenticate your losses through
surrendering documents which will validate your claim.
10778. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: I
was looking at paragraph 9 of your statement, and I am an ignorant
layman in this matter, where you talk about trading in carcass
meat which is not packaged in any way and that the risk of contamination
by airborne pollution is high, and I can well understand that
and your concerns. But then it goes on to say that it was for
that reason that as part of the refurbishment you have these sealed
lock-on docking stations, so I presume it comes out of the lorry
into that sealed docking station and then into your site where
you cut up the carcass, et cetera. Can you just describe that
bit of it?
(Mr Andrade) Yes, my Lord. The idea is to maintain temperature
control as far as possible, and by keeping the lorry locked on
to an airtight seal it minimises the risk of temperature rising
and the meat will be received in your premises at the right temperature,
under 7 degrees. Of course, there is also the other fact that,
by virtue of being under cover all the time, it is protected from
contamination.
10779. Will not that help you in terms of protecting
you from dust that is generated as a result of these other activities?
It will not eliminate it, but does it help?
(Mr Andrade) Yes. If it were not for the locking on we would
be totally exposed and have no temperature control. The trouble
is that invariably the service corridor, which is an avenue through
which the meat passes, is often subject to people coming in and
out, and automatic doors are opened and, best endeavours notwithstanding,
you do run the risk of something coming in. We do our best to
stop that but it does happen.
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