Examination of Witnesses (Questions 11520
- 11539)
11520. You are sticking with 2016?
(Mr Anderson) That is the principal forecast
year we use, yes.
11521. The same as for the Terminal 5 inquiry,
in other words?
(Mr Anderson) Correct.
11522. MR WALTON: Thank you. I have no
further questions.
11523. MS LIEVEN: I have no further questions,
my Lord.
11524. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much,
Mr Anderson.
The witness withdrew
11525. CHAIRMAN: Ms Lieven, is there
anything left?
11526. MS LIEVEN: Very little, my Lord,
and perhaps I can do just a very short closing to pull together
the points from our point of view. I think it is fair to say that
the main point of the PRACT Petition has been around consultation
and information-sharing. It is true to say that the consultation
and the working with local groups and the Council has so far worked
extremely well in the Paddington area with the Paddington liaison
group. We have every reason to believe that that will continue.
It is very effectively chaired by Mr King. The precise details
of how it works, what sub-groups it has and so on are really not
matters for this Committee, but the reason I put up the letter
after lunch was just to show that those are things which are being
actively discussed which Mr King very much has a handle on and
where he, as the Chairman, and the participants of the group feel
that there is a need to have sub-groups, smaller groups, groups
at different times, that is all something which can clearly be
dealt with through the existing process.
11527. As far as formal consultation on applications
is concerned, Schedule 7 ensures that that takes place with the
Council on surface-level parts of the Bill and the Council will
undoubtedly consult with PRACT on such Schedule 7 applications.
So far as sub-surface works are concerned, as Mr Berryman has
explained, they are really not appropriate for consultation with
local residents' groups because they are almost entirely driven
by a combination of engineering, safety and passenger forecast
numbers, so they are really matters which are much more appropriately
dealt with by the Promoter and in discussion with LUL and, where
appropriate, the councils.
11528. So far as information before applications
are made, which is perhaps really PRACT's concern, that they know
things at a formative stage so that they can influence design,
it is clear from Mr Berryman's evidence that that will be done
to an appropriate degree and at an appropriate time through the
forum of the liaison group, so, in my submission, to an appropriate
degree, those concerns are taken on board and can be dealt with.
11529. I would just reiterate the point I made
before lunch which is that what we do for Paddington we have to
be prepared to do for other areas as well, so it is very important
to bear in mind that this is a huge project with large numbers
of residents' groups of very different natures up and down the
project, and we have to bear all their needs in mind rather than
having a one-size-fits-all kind of approach laid down.
11530. Turning then to the substance incredibly
quickly, taxis, in my submission, what has come out today very,
very clearly is that, thanks to Crossrail, there is going to be
an enormous improvement in taxi provision at Paddington. We are
taking taxis out of Departures Road, we are thereby helping the
residential areas to the south and the west to an enormous extent,
we are providing a much better circulation system and we are likely,
through Crossrail, to diminish the overall number of taxis, although
of course we cannot control what happens on the London transport
scene more generally. In my submission, what came out very clearly
from Mr Zamit's evidence was that really he wants Crossrail to
solve a whole series of problems that have got nothing to do with
Crossrail. We cannot stop people dropping off in Spring Street,
it has got nothing to do with us. Westminster might be able to
stop it, although they probably cannot. Equally, we cannot stop
large numbers of taxis coming on a Sunday afternoon to Paddington
and stacking up on the bridge, but what we can do is provide a
quality circulation system with enough taxi space for BAA, who
are the principal commercial body concerned, to believe it is
appropriate and Westminster City Council to believe it is appropriate.
11531. The other issues raised by PRACT, Brewers
Court and the canopy, we have agreed to construct a canopy to
noise standards agreed with Westminster that will protect the
residents of Brewers Court to an acceptable degree during the
phase of use of that area for a service deck, so that has been
agreed with Westminster who have been very concerned about the
issue and, in my submission, the Committee can entirely rely on
that.
11532. Similarly, Eastbourne Terrace and Departures
Road, we have got to a stage where Westminster are content with
where the scheme has got to and the important agreement that Departures
Road will be treated as a worksite and, therefore, Westminster
will have a significant level of control and influence over what
goes back there.
11533. Finally, so far as groundborne noise
is concerned, you have heard Mr Thornely-Taylor. The main point
that came out of the evidence, to my understanding, is that this
may be a location where the 15 metre rule recommended by the House
of Commons does not make an enormous amount of sense, but that
is no reason to extend it for a further period where there is
very little, if any, benefit and where the overall cost of putting
FST on the whole tunnel is really very large.
11534. Then the only other issue is the CCZ
boundary, but we touched on that this morning and, if the Committee
are minded to put something in their report, then that is a matter
for the Committee, but there is nothing more we can do. So, my
Lords, that is our case on this Petition.
11535. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms Lieven.
Now, Mr Walton, is there anything that you want us to do and,
if so, what?
11536. MR WALTON: My Lord, I will be
brief.
11537. CHAIRMAN: We may or may not be
able to do it, but you ask.
11538. MR WALTON: Yes, I understand.
On the consultation and involvement, we take a great deal of comfort
from what has emerged today and I do not think we are asking you
to do anything, my Lord, because we feel that, in the light of
what has emerged in evidence today, we can build on the liaison
committee which already exists with the possibility of flexibly
modifying its structure. As Mr Berryman said, it is a question
of horses for courses and the question of what is an appropriate
time for consultation is one where we hope that Crossrail, despite
the pressures they may be under, will bring the consultation forward
so that it is sooner rather than later. Nor on taxis obviously
is there anything which you can do, and I entirely accept that.
We take no points on the Congestion Charge Zone boundary or Brewers
Court. Brewers Court is, so far as we know, satisfactory, but
we rest on the design of the canopy being such that, to the satisfaction
of Westminster City Council, it will achieve the effect of protecting
the residents from the 24-hour noise. My having not seen, as you,
my Lords, have not seen, the actual wording of the undertaking,
I can only rest on my confidence that Westminster City Council
will have done a good job on this matter. On the Congestion Charge
Zone boundary, I take no point either because we await what happens
to the Congestion Charge generally with the new Mayor and the
question of TfL being prepared to consult with the City Council
and with stakeholders, which I hope includes ourselves, at an
early stage is one which has caused problems in the past, but
it may not cause so many problems in the future.
11539. We are left, therefore, with our two
main concerns which is the impact of the narrowing of Eastbourne
Terrace at the end of construction. We accept that it will include,
or have as its corollary, a widening of Departures Road, the likelihood
being that the demand for space on Eastbourne Terrace will be
considerable and that demand for space on Departures Road will
be less. We are very happy that it is being treated as a worksite
and that Crossrail expect that they and Westminster City Council
will be able to influence the way that it is used.
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