Examination of Witnesses (Questions 11540
- 11559)
11540. CHAIRMAN: Well, they will be in
charge of it, will they not, because it is going to be treated
as being an overground work?
11541. MR WALTON: Yes, my Lord.
11542. CHAIRMAN: Therefore, it comes
under Schedule 7. They are not only the planning authority, but
planning authorities take into account highway matters.
11543. MR WALTON: Westminster is responsible
for highway matters overall, but this will remain a—
11544. CHAIRMAN: But, as a planning authority,
they have to take account of highway matters at the same time.
11545. MR WALTON: Indeed ,my Lord, yes.
There was evidence given on there being good working relations
with Network Rail. Given that Network Rail own Departures Road,
I think we have to rest on that as I do not think that you can
do anything about it.
11546. Then we are left with groundborne noise
on trains and tunnels, and you will be hearing about this tomorrow,
so I do not really want to take up more of your time on it, but
there was reference in the House of Commons Report to possible
improvements in technology and we just hope that the improvements
in technology, as they come along, will be embodied in the standard
track form, given that the depth of the tunnels under this quiet
residential area is relatively low. We have to accept that it
is the outcome of the predictions, assuming that they are correct
and I think we are broadly reassured about the fact that the predictions
turned out to be correct, so we have to accept that it is the
outcome of the predictions which matters, not the particular way
in which they are arrived at, so there I think I would say, looking
at the interests of the people who are concerned, that, if there
are improvements in the technology which can be brought into use
without any great increase in cost, they should be made use of.
On that, I rest my case, my Lord.
11547. CHAIRMAN: Mr Walton, thank you
for a model presentation on behalf of a residents' group. I think
it has been very helpful to have these things discussed.
11548. MR WALTON: Thank you, my Lord.
11549. CHAIRMAN: It may not be that we
are going to be able to do very much to help you, but I think
possibly the result of today's hearing will in itself be beneficial.
11550. MR WALTON: Indeed, my Lord.
11551. CHAIRMAN: I think all of us would
like to thank you very much indeed and Mr Zamit as well. Mr Mould,
do you have something?
11552. MR MOULD: Yes, my Lord.
11553. CHAIRMAN: Yes, I have heard about
this. You tell everybody else.
11554. MR MOULD: I shall not trouble
you for very long, but perhaps I can just put up on the screen
something which, I fear, will in itself be almost completely incomprehensible,
but I ought to have it up just for the record.[25]
11555. CHAIRMAN: It is completely incomprehensible,
yes.
11556. MR MOULD: I was under-selling
it by saying "almost"! My Lord, as we have approached
what, I think, we all believe to be the final week of your Lordships'
Committee's sittings, we need to mention one or two amendments
to the Bill which we regard as necessary in order to make some
minor corrections and also to provide, under clause 16, a slightly
extended power to the Secretary of State in relation to the heritage
controls which are disapplied and modified for the purposes of
the construction of Crossrail. Just to remind members of the Committee,
if you will cast your minds back to the Spitalfields sittings
all those many weeks ago, I think early in the afternoon one day
I sought to explain to you how the usual controls over works affecting
listed buildings and buildings in conservation areas, which would
be subject to regulation by the local planning authority, have
been disapplied and modified in the case of the Crossrail scheme
and an extra statutory scheme embracing English Heritage, the
local planning authority and the owners of such buildings has
been set in place based on the model which has worked successfully
for the purposes of the Channel Tunnel Rail Link Bill. It is set
out, as your Lordships will recall, in Information Paper B1, I
think section 4 of that paper which explains the regime that is
in place, and indeed one of the things we have been talking to
Mr King about in recent months is the settling of the terms of
a number of heritage deeds which are the mechanism where by those
extra statutory processes are established, and one of the things
we have achieved with the City Council, an important stakeholder
in that respect, is the agreements of the terms of a number of
those deeds as regards Paddington and other important Listed buildings.
11557. What this amendment that you have before
you is designed to achieve is to enable the Secretary of State
by order to restore ordinary listed building control and conservation
area consent controls to the local planning authorities under
the ordinary provisions of the listed building legislation following
the completion of the Crossrail construction works. To use the
jargon, for the period of construction those ordinary controls
would be switched off and replaced by the bespoke regime I have
just reminded your Lordships of. These provisions would enable
the ordinary controls to be switched back on again following the
completion of the works. It would be for the Secretary of State
to judge the appropriate moment at which to restore ordinary regulatory
controls for local planning authorities. I would expect that would
take place broadly at the time when the major project works have
been substantially completed. I suppose, to give a practical flavour,
thereafter there will no doubt be works of maintenance and alteration
once the project is up and running which may require listed building
consent or conservation area consent to be obtained and if these
powers which we propose to include within Clause 16 were to be
enacted and then subsequently to be deployed by the Secretary
of State in the way I have just explained, then clearly works
of that kind would need to be submitted for the necessary consents
to the local planning authorities concerned. That in a nutshell
is what this addition to Clause 16 is about. Perhaps the final
point, just to set it in context—
11558. CHAIRMAN: That would be explained,
no doubt, by Lord Bassam or whoever is the minister when these
amendments come to be moved?
11559. MR MOULD: I would have thought
that would be right. Is that correct? No. (Mr Mould took instructions)
The purpose of this is to move them now so they may be incorporated
into the Bill in conjunction with your Committee's report.
25 Proposed Bill amendments in lieu of filled Bill
(SCN-20080506-008 to -009) Back
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