Examination of Witnesses (Questions 12560
12560. MR PAYNE: It will be a few minutes.
The last of my exhibits is JP9 which is a long way from the Central
Line or Crossrail, but again I have superimposed my building on
top of it.
It does show the twin tunnels in operation below the fragile building
and it is a makeup picture of the twin tunnels on the motorway
M20 near Folkestone and I have superimposed my block to try and
give a daylight impression of the proximity of the proposed Crossrail
shallow construction and its effect. It is not exactly to scale,
but there are some interesting parallels. If you can imagine what
that looks like, you can see it in the daylight. I have one last
question for Mr Winbourne on this. Will floating slab track solve
(Mr Winbourne) I do not believe it will. It
will help, but I think your building is more at risk than floating
slab track can suffice. Nevertheless, I think it should be a given
on the scheme.
12561. MR PAYNE: Moving on now to Hyde
Park and the Victoria Gate ventilation surface structure, as I
call it, and emergency intervention shafts or points or maybe
you could call it a `ghost station' or something like that, I
was handed a new plan by
12562. CHAIRMAN: What has this got to
do with floating slab track?
12563. MR PAYNE: I have finished that
section now, my Lord.
12564. CHAIRMAN: Well, what has it got
to do with your Petition?
12565. MR PAYNE: My Petition exactly
12566. CHAIRMAN: That you object to it.
12567. MR PAYNE: Well, I am just concerned
about it. My Petition "objects to the Bill due to proper
planning and clarity for mitigating effects of construction of
the emergency intervention point and vent in Hyde Park at Victoria
Gate which is situated extremely close to the block and its access
routes. In particular, removal of any spoil by road and potential
diverted traffic chaos caused by any closure of North and West
Carriage Drives", and that is in my Petition.
12568. CHAIRMAN: Yes, it is.
12569. MR PAYNE: There is still no confirmation
about the real size of the structure, or maybe there is a little
bit more now, or that lorries carrying the spoil will not use
Victoria Gate. If there is any blockage, traffic is gridlocked
in Brook Street and into Stanhope Terrace, Sussex Square, and
residents' cars cannot even leave our driveway, which you saw,
I believe. These decisions again appear to be subject to later
stages in Crossrail planning. I have had some reassurance from
Mr Mould on this this morning, but, as far as I can see, there
is no categorical sort of statement at the moment. The Royal Parks
face a huge loss of amenity and appear to be just hamstrung by
a major infrastructure project. Crossrail should release details
of changes in a statement to all Petitioners, not just like a
press release or occasional letter. Surely Crossrail do not have
to jump through hoops to provide these assurances. Coaches incidentally,
and this is in reply to Mr Mould earlier saying that large vehicles
do not normally use the park, in fact coaches do use the entrance
at Victoria Gate, and it is very busy there in the summer and
with large music festivals, so we do have some experience of what
happens, but on a very temporary basis. I understand that this
structure at Victoria Gate could well be there or the construction
could be over seven years. Mr Winbourne, do you have any comment
Very quickly because time is short, my Lords. I was going to say
this at the point when the bells rang. I am looking at the previous
drawing that we had, which is this one in Mr Payne's submission
(indicating) and I am trying to be quick because I am conscious
of the time. You will see the tunnels diverging to the structure
that was shown there. Now, I do not have a problem with the fact
that they have altered the structureI do not think you
need to go into thatbut the point I was seeking to make
is that, if, as I believe is essential, there were to be an island
platform, it would be stretching, and that is why the tracks diverge,
towards the structure we are talking about, Mr Payne's building.
It could be within a very short distance and we are talking about
not a driven tunnel here, but hand-mined. It is like the stations,
they are all hand-mined out. It is a totally different construction
process and I think that that is being, if you like, minimised
in the evidence, but I think it is terribly important for your
Committee to understand this, that that is what we are looking
at. These are vast, cavernous stations. The fact that it is a
ghost station without any ticket halls or anything does not mean
that what is down at the bottom of the shafts is not important
and that is incredibly close to where we are. It is within, I
do not know, I suspect the end of the platform will be within
about 20 or 30 yards, in old money, and what I am simply saying
is that my experience from Wardens Grove, my Lord, in Bermondsey
was much closer than that, the building was next door to it, and
it was gone into in depth. There is something else I would wish
to mention and that is that I believe it is the same gentleman,
that one of the experts that was on the papers that I was looking
at in connection with that was Mr Rupert Taylor and I assume it
is the same Mr Rupert Taylor as we had in this room, so the suggestion
that there was nothing like that on the Jubilee Line does not
follow and I think that your Committee should be aware of that.
12570. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: You
are saying that there is a station there?
I am saying that, if it is an emergency intervention point, then
it is almost certainly in the form of an island platform between
the twin tunnels and that is why the lines diverge, as they do
on any railway with an island platform, and that is the reason
for that configuration and the shaft will be in the middle.
12571. MR MOULD: I am sorry to interrupt,
Mr Winbourne, but it may be helpful just to make it clear that
this is to be an emergency intervention shaft which will have
a short cross-passage between the running tunnels at the foot
of the shaft, and that is the sum total of the physical structure
that will exist in order to enable the shaft to operate.
12572. CHAIRMAN: That is what I understood.
That is what they say, sir. I do not believe that that will suffice.
12573. All right, we hear you do not believe
it, but that is what they say.
(Mr Winbourne) I have said what I have
said about that. I believe Mr Payne has some more things.
12574. MR PAYNE: No, I am just about
finished. It is back to Mr Mould.
12575. CHAIRMAN: Mr Mould, what do you
want to do about this?
12576. MR MOULD: Well, my Lord, I do
not want to ask Mr Winbourne any questions. I want to correct
one or two matters of fact, but it is much better if I ask Mr
Berryman to do that.
12577. CHAIRMAN: I think that would be
12578. MR MOULD: So, unless there are
any questions from your Lordships, perhaps Mr Winbourne would
very kindly leave the stand.
12579. CHAIRMAN: Mr Winbourne, thank
you very much indeed.
The witness withdrew
30 Committee Ref: A67, Petitioner's impression of
the proximity of the proposed Crossrail tunnels (SCN-20080507-029) Back