Examination of Witnesses (Questions 12640
12640. MR MOULD: Yes please, just to
ask him one question, if I may.
12641. CHAIRMAN: By all means.
recalled Examined by MR
12642. MR MOULD: Mr Thornely-Taylor,
when I opened on this Petition I gave the Committee some information
about predicted groundborne noise level for the operation of Crossrail
railway as it passes beneath Mr Payne's property. You heard what
I said, I think. Can you confirm that what I say was accurate?
(Mr Thornely-Taylor) Yes, it was accurate.
12643. Thank you very much. Mr Payne has drawn
attention to the fact that he currently experiences noise from
the running of trains through the Central Line which runs broadly
along the line of Bayswater Road. You heard him say that?
(Mr Thornely-Taylor) Yes I did indeed.
12644. We have just established the relationship
between the Central Line and the Crossrail railway, that is to
say the Central Line is running above the Crossrail railway in
this vicinity. That being the case, can you just assist the Committee
which is what is likely in your judgment going to be the principal
source of groundborne noise when both of those railways are operational
so far as Mr Paine's property is concerned?
(Mr Thornely-Taylor) The Central Line
will remain the principal source of the groundborne noise, not
only because of its shallower depth but because of the manner
in which the rails are rigidly fastened to the sleepers, as shown
in Mr Payne's photographs. It does not have the benefit of all
the vibration isolation features that I have described on several
occasions to the Committee, and therefore it is basically a much
noisier underground railway.
12645. CHAIRMAN: Is it a jointed track?
There are joints on the Central Line; whether there are joints
in this particular location I have not checked.
12646. MR MOULD: In the light of that,
can you comment on whether Mr Payne will experience any benefit
at all were Crossrail to be constructed by means of floating slab
track in this location as opposed to a standard resilient track?
No, it would remain the case that the Central Line was the dominant
source of underground railway noise.
12647. MR MOULD: Thank you very much.
12648. CHAIRMAN: Mr Payne, have you got
any questions for Mr Thornely-Taylor?
12649. MR PAYNE: No, I have not.
12650. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much,
The witness withdrew
12651. CHAIRMAN: We can go on to a quarter
past five thanks to the shorthand writers.
12652. MR MOULD: The principal point
which Mr Payne has argued before you today is that the Committee
should require the Promoters to commit to the installation of
floating slab track along the running tunnels in the vicinity
of his property. He has made that submission on the basis that
on a true analysis of the dimensional relationship between his
property and the running tunnels across the Crossrail scheme he
falls within rather than without what we have come to know as
the 15-metre rule. In the light of Mr Berryman's evidence, there
was reference to the submitted plans and sections and the dimensions
shown on those which, as your Lordships will appreciate, govern
the depth at which, subject to limits of deviation, running tunnels
must be constructed. There is no prospect of Crossrail being constructed
at a depth which is less than 15 metres. In fact, it will be constructed
at a depth at which the track is approximately 29 metres below
Mr Payne's basement, so on that footing Mr Payne's case simply
12653. In any event, as Mr Thornely-Taylor has
just explained, given the presence of the Central Line and the
predictions which we have for the groundborne noise that is likely
to emanate from the Crossrail railway when it is operating, there
is simply no advantage to be gained so far as Mr Payne is concerned
in having a special track form provided in the running tunnels
as it passes in the vicinity of his property. The principal source
of groundborne noise when he is lying in his bed at the present
time is the Central Line; it will remain the Central Line because
of the physical relationship between the two railways once the
Crossrail railway has been built and is operating. So not only
is there no basis in his argument based on the 15-metre rule;
there is simply no advantage in terms of benefit to him, or indeed
to other residents of the block within which his property is located,
were this Committee to require Crossrail to install a special
track form as his position seeks. On that basis, I would invite
the Committee to reject the point which he has put before you
12654. One other matter: I know that in his
written submissions Mr Winbourne and Mr Payne have made submissions
about the adequacy of the compensation code. I have made the submission
in opening that he is entitled, in principle, in the event that
his property sustains injurious affection by virtue of the impact
of the scheme, to make a claim under section 7 of the Compulsory
Purchase Act 1965. That is the case, and in my submission that
provides him with adequate compensation in accordance with the
ordinary principles of law which govern compensation in these
circumstances, in the very unlikely event that he sustains damage
to his property as a result of the construction or operation of
Crossrail. Thank you very much.
12655. CHAIRMAN: Mr Payne, there are
four minutes today. I do not know how long you want. You have
got the final word in this, and if you cannot do it in four minutes
then I think it is probably better if we come back in the morning.
I do not want to rush you; four minutes is not a lot of time.
12656. MR PAYNE: No. Again, I felt under
a lot of pressure during that little break we had earlier on,
when we were talking about a large part of my evidence from Mr
Winbourne to do with compensation and all the rest of it. I understand
that Mr Mould would be sympathetic to have that part read. Is
12657. MR MOULD: That is what I have
12658. MR PAYNE: My Lord, if that is
fine then I do not need to go on any further with that. My closing
points now really are that, obviously, I will stand by my measurements
regarding distance from my building properly to the nearest piece
of concrete that is going to cause vibrations, and I will not
go back on that.
12659. I would also like to add, has anybody
actually built a similar-sized railway like Crossrail under a
listed building like this? Invariably, before, like the cross-Channel
Rail Link, that follows existing railways or major roads; this
is the first time that a tunnel system like this is going to be
built under valuable listed buildings. Also, English Heritage
do not seem to be here to argue the case for us.