Select Committee on the Crossrail Bill Minutes of Evidence

Examination of Witnesses (Questions 12620 - 12639)

  12620. MR PAYNE: It is JP2?

   (Mr Berryman) These dimensions, my Lord, are taken from the 1992 scheme which was proposed as a Private Member's Bill, which I think from recollection was sponsored by British Rail and London Underground Limited. The fact that in plan our alignment is very similar is not relevant because in cross-section the alignment is very different, we are going much deeper than they were wanting to go.

  12621. BARONESS FOOKES: I think you said that in that scheme in 1992 Crossrail went above the Central Line and this goes below.

   (Mr Berryman) That is correct, my Lady.

  12622. MR PAYNE: This is off the same set of plans and drawings where Crossrail was going under the Central Line.

   (Mr Berryman) I am sorry, Mr Payne, if the Crossrail tunnels were 14 metres below the ground level as you have drawn them there, they could not go under the Central Line because the Central Line is too deep. We are talking about surveying facts; we are not talking about matters of opinion as to where things could go. We are talking about levels, dimensions and co-ordinates. I am sorry there is just nothing that we can argue about because there is no doubt about the matter.

  12623. There is one other plan which does show you exactly what I am saying which is part of the bundle from Mott MacDonald which has not been superimposed on by myself.[33]

  (Mr Berryman) That is correct.

  12624. And that is what we are working on and that drawing goes with this one.

   (Mr Berryman) Your house is about here, I think, (indicating)

  12625. I think it is between the two little dips on the left-hand side.

   (Mr Berryman) According to my cross-section here, it is not scaled so it is around there somewhere (indicating).

  12626. It is between the two little channels.

   (Mr Berryman) You can see the level of the track at that point on our data, which is 100 metres below ODE, it is about 92, and your cellar is 121.27. That makes it, to my reckoning, 29 metres' difference, so I am sorry your diagram here agrees exactly with the information I have just given to the Committee, and here you can see the Central Line and the old middle level sewer, middle level sewer number one as it is probably called, and our tunnels go underneath that. You can see that on your own section.

  12627. As far as I am aware, even in 1994 the tunnels have always been going underneath the Central Line.

   (Mr Berryman) No, the tunnels went above the Central Line in the 1994 scheme. I have got a colleague in the room who actually worked on this scheme and I have just checked with them before I sat down.

  12628. MR PAYNE: This is attached to the bundle with a letter from you saying this is 1994.

  12629. MR MOULD: My Lord, I am very conscious of the time and I think the point is really as simple as this: as Mr Berryman has explained, we have checked the parliamentary plans and sections and they set out the depth, subject to limits of deviation, at which the tunnels must run if powers are granted by this Bill beneath this part of London, and on the basis of that we simply will not be empowered to drive a railway above the Central Line.

  12630. MR PAYNE: I am not asking that you do that. I am just challenging—

  12631. CHAIRMAN: It is not going to happen.

  12632. MR PAYNE: I know; that is good news.

  12633. CHAIRMAN: So the figures Mr Berryman has given are unchallenged, are they?

  12634. MR PAYNE: He has produced some new drawings.

   (Mr Berryman) My Lord, I am referring to the parliamentary sections which were deposited with this House some three years ago.

  12635. CHAIRMAN: Relating to work 113?

   (Mr Berryman) -13A, my Lord.

  12636. CHAIRMAN: That is what the Bill provides for, that is what it permits. Any more questions for Mr Berryman?

  12637. MR PAYNE: No more.

  12638. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.

The witness withdrew

  12639. CHAIRMAN: Do you want to call Mr Thornely-Taylor about noise?

33   Crossrail Ref: P79, Cross section of Crossrail tunnels at Hyde Park Gardens (including Stanhope Terrace) (SCN-20080507-031) Back

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