Examination of Witnesses (Questions 12960
- 12979)
12960. BARONESS FOOKES: It would be of
value to your clients, I think, to go through this paper more
thoroughly than one can do in a committee like this so they can
see precisely in one formula what has been arranged and then to
concentrate, I would suggest, on making sure that these rules
are enforced in practice on the ground.
12961. MR GOODMAN: Yes and indeed it
would be sensible to take up the offer of a meeting with Crossrail
to have that explained, if that is still open.
12962. CHAIRMAN: I think it would have
been very much better, truthfully, if your clients had gone to
talk to Crossrail a long time ago, even if they did not have the
expertise, because these things are not particularly difficult
to understand, they really are not.
12963. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: Is
there a formal forum, a liaison group like has been suggested
for Spitalfields?
12964. MS LIEVEN: There will be, my Lord,
yes. As I think we explained, the Spitalfields and Paddington
ones were set up early—in Spitalfields because of local
concerns and in Paddington because of the particular complexity
of the issues in the scheme's evolution. The intention is that
there will be similar liaison groups all the way up and down the
route so there will be one in Mayfair. I do not know whether it
will cover the whole of Mayfair and down to Tottenham Court Road
but the area will be covered in the liaison group.
12965. CHAIRMAN: Mr Goodman, I do not
think all is lost. Here is the list of not only the undertakings
but the environmental minimum requirements which are going to
be imposed by contract on the nominated undertaker and you have
got a whole list of protective provisions here which ought to
be helpful to your clients.
12966. MR GOODMAN: Yes, my Lord, some
of them are helpful.
12967. CHAIRMAN: The difficulty is that
your clients will not discuss them with Crossrail.
12968. MR GOODMAN: I am told that some
of them are helpful and some of them do not go far enough as far
as my clients are concerned.
12969. CHAIRMAN: But you cannot tell
us which ones?
12970. MR GOODMAN: I can go through some
of them in detail if it is helpful.
12971. CHAIRMAN: I will tell you what
we will do, if you want to pick out individual undertakings and
minimum requirements which you say are inadequate, why do I not
invite the Promoters to call Mr Berryman and you can put these
points to him and say what it is that is wrong with the undertakings?
12972. MR GOODMAN: I would be content
to do that. I would need a small opportunity of taking instructions
on that.
12973. CHAIRMAN: Have you not taken instructions
on all these things?
12974. MR GOODMAN: I have only received
this list this morning.
12975. CHAIRMAN: But it has been available
for ages.
12976. MR GOODMAN: I have explained to
your Lordship that I have not had the opportunity of reading every
document and covering every angle that arises out of this case.
It is simply not within the bounds of feasibility. I am doing
this generously for the opportunity for myself but I am not doing
it in a comprehensive fashion as though my clients were capable
of instructing me to that degree of specificity and I do not have
the back-up of any expertise by which I can assess the reasonableness
of this.
12977. CHAIRMAN: I do understand and
I am sure they are very grateful to you for taking this case on
in the way that you have, and so are we, but there is no way forward
unless you can point to the deficiencies that you claim exist.
12978. MR GOODMAN: If that is the only
way that the Committee does see a way to go forward —- I
have tried to present an alternative way forward that I thought
would ameliorate anxieties and difficulties of this nature in
future, because unless the suggestion I have put forward, or something
of that nature, is adopted over the next five years when those
problems arise my clients will simply be in the same position
of not having any expertise by which they can assess properly
the kind of undertakings or methodologies that are being employed,
so that is the alternative that I proposed, and I propose that
for very pragmatic reasons that I do not have the expertise personally
by which I can go through and know which ones of these are in
accordance with industry best practice or not; that is not something
I know about.
12979. CHAIRMAN: You cannot do it; I
can quite see that.
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