Examination of Witnesses (Questions 13480
- 13499)
13480. LORD SNAPE: I had better defer
to my colleague.
13481. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: I
am satisfied.
13482. LORD SNAPE: We are satisfied.
13483. MR ELVIN: Very well.
13484. CHAIRMAN: The other loose end
that I have is this question of the infrastructure manager.
13485. MR ELVIN: My Lords, can I deal
with this issue. Your Lordships will have seen from the paper,
in which I have had some hand, the difficulty is this. Infrastructure
manager, as you will have seen, has a different definition in
both the ROGs and the Access Regulations. The infrastructure manager
in reality for the Access Regulations is whoever has the appropriate
degree of control. In both cases, it is a matter for negotiation
between the interested parties, which is why this issue arose
with Network Rail. There were negotiations with Network Rail,
TfL, of course ourselves as Promoter and the ORR is going to be
involved, as we told the Committee it would.
13486. The infrastructure manager has not been
finalised for either sets of regulations. It is not in dispute
that Network Rail should be infrastructure manager under the ROGs,
as I said during the course of the submissions by Mr Purchas.
13487. CHAIRMAN: For the tunnel?
13488. MR ELVIN: We are dealing only
with the central tunnel. Network Rail is the infrastructure manager
for the national network before you get to the central section.
13489. So far as the access regulations are
concerned, there is not as yet consensus, hence the issue with
Network Rail. That will have to be agreed, because ultimately,
if it is the Secretary of State who exercises the compulsory purchase
powers under what will become the Crossrail Act, and there is
a possibility that those powers can be delegated under the Act,
if it is the Secretary of State, then of course, control will
vest in whoever the Secretary of State gives control to under
whatever agreement is reached, but we are seeking, as we said
during Network Rail's Petition, to agree between the various interested
parties. So, my Lords, the infrastructure manager has not yet
been finally appointed but it is a matter for further negotiation
and discussion, as we explained during the Network Rail Petition.
13490. CHAIRMAN: Let me try and get this
clear, because we were asked by Network Rail to recommend that
they and not TfL should be the infrastructure manager for the
central tunnel.
13491. MR ELVIN: That is correct.
13492. CHAIRMAN: But that would be two
different infrastructure managers for the central tunnel according
to which regulations you look at.
13493. MR ELVIN: That is absolutely right.
13494. CHAIRMAN: As I understand you
are saying for the moment, for the purposes of the 2006 regulations,
which is the ROGs, it will be Network Rail.
13495. MR ELVIN: There is no dispute
that it should be Network Rail. Network Rail I think are rather
reluctant to take on that role unless they have the other role
as well.
13496. CHAIRMAN: However, Transport for
London would like to have the other role?
13497. MR ELVIN: That is what I understand.
13498. CHAIRMAN: Then they are going
to contract out track maintenance work.
13499. MR ELVIN: Transport for London
wish to have the central tunnel deregulated. They wish to have
control of it and they wish to deal with the management of the
infrastructure via contract, which may be to Network Rail but
Network Rail do not want that type of arrangement.
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