Examination of Witnesses (Questions 13520
- 13530)
13520. I say this in genuine defence of those
who I know have worked very hard behind the scenes. It is a two-way
process. We have continued to learn lessons throughout the two
and a half years we have been before Select Committees of Parliament
and we continue to learn that there are better ways of doing things,
and I am sure there are lessons which are still to be learned
as we take the project forward. We take your Lordships comments
very seriously, but I do sincerely wish to make it clear how much
work has gone into trying to communicate with communities affected.
13521. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: I
can accept that. I think you have also recognised that the Committee
has been aware that in certain circumstances the two-way traffic,
so to speak, between yourself and communities has not worked as
effectively as we certainly would like it to be operating. I think
we should perhaps be saying something about that.
13522. MR ELVIN: My Lord, no one doubts
the importance of communities understanding and engaging with
the works which will take place and that process does not stop
today, it continues until the project is over and, indeed, beyond
the end of the project in certain circumstances. We will try to
learn and continue to learn.
13523. CHAIRMAN: Mr Elvin, it may be
that when we have got to the end of the Select Committee proceedings
things may become a bit easier. I think that we all would like
to see liaison groups operating in whatever local areas are suitable
and operating continuously and satisfactorily. As I read the Petitions
that we have been looking at today, one of the reasons why some
of the communities will not come is because they want all sorts
of conditions and preconditions and warranties and guarantees
and so on and so forth and they hoped in the Petitions that this
Committee would grant them. I am not going to say yet what conclusions
we are going to come to about this, but supposing that we are
going to end up without making, for instance, recommendations
that they should all have professional advice at your expense
about everything, which is one of the things.
13524. MR ELVIN: So I understand.
13525. CHAIRMAN: Supposing we do not
recommend that, it may very well be that will be a barrier out
of the way because they are no longer hoping to get something
which they are not going to get. It may be that they will co-operate
more readily. I think you must pursue these matters. There are
obviously some very sensitive feelings about these things, but
you must pursue them without letting up because if you do not
have these liaison groups, I believe that we will go on having
the sort of trouble we have been listening to in the two areas
we have been dealing with today, which, as you rightly say, have
not happened where PRACT is operated. It is the PRACT model and,
indeed, the Camden model for the Channel Tunnel Rail Link that
we prefer and we would hope to see will be incorporated throughout
the length of the route.
13526. MR ELVIN: My Lords, we agree.
My Lords, if there are no other matters, might I say a few remarks
in conclusion given that this is the end of the Committee hearing.
My Lords, can I, on behalf of the entire team of the Promoters
and the Counsel team in particular, thank your Lordships for the
courtesy and the consideration which you have shown during the
weeks of the Select Committee hearings, the attention to detail
and the way in which Petitioners and Promoters alike have been
dealt with.
13527. Can I also thank the Committee clerks,
Sarah and Darren, particularly for their help to all those involved
in the process, both Petitioners and Promoters. Can I also thank
those who often go unsung, the shorthand writers who have had
to sit late fortunately fewer times before your Lordships than
they did in the Commons. Can I also thank the two Committee assistants,
in particular Mr Harry Younger, who has been operating the computer
equipment and coping with its oddities as we have progressed,
and Mr Daniel Grocott, who sits behind and has also been assisting
in organising papers behind the scenes. We are very grateful to
them and we are very grateful to your Lordships and look forward
to receiving in due course your Lordships' recommendation.
13528. CHAIRMAN: Yes. We reciprocate
the thanks that you have expressed, not least to the various people
who have made the process comprehensible and now transparent through
the transcripts. This will be of great benefit to everybody. The
Promoters have put forward their case with courtesy and clarity
and so have the Petitioners, for the main part anyway! It has
been, from our point of view, a pleasant procedure and one that
I do not think we regret in any way having volunteered to take
part in. That makes both sides happy.
13529. MR ELVIN: My Lord, as your Lordship
said the other day, "Double eulogies all round"! My
Lord, I am not sure whether I count as the fat lady and I am not
intending to sing; Mr Mould always has the right word for these
occasions, but thank you.
13530. CHAIRMAN: The Committee has now
concluded the hearing on the Petitions. We will continue to meet
in private to discuss and agree the Special Report and the recommendations
contained in it on the various Petitions. That will be published,
I hope, later this month because we are going to get on to work
on it straight away. There will be hard copies sent to all Petitioners.
It will be put on the Committee's website and then, of course,
the Bill goes back to the floor of the House. It will go back
I think through the remaining stages, re-committal, at which stage
the railway clauses will presumably be moved out of it and then
there will be a report stage and Third Reading. Then it will be
returned to the House of Commons to then consider the amendments.
I think that is the usual procedure for public as well as Hybrid
Bills. I will just reiterate that it is a very happy moment that
we have reached the end of this on a note of great goodwill and
contentment all around. Very well. This Committee is adjourned
until we get into private session.
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