Examination of Witnesses (Questions 400-401)
Ms Eluned Morgan MEP
5 JUNE 2008
Q400 Chairman: Could I just ask you
about the barrage. I do not know whether from a constituency standpoint
you are able to comment and if you like we can not put it on the
record. My question comes from our visit to Avonmouth speaking
both to the port but also getting a briefing from the consultants
to BERR. Two things stood out that we would appreciate your comments
on. First, there are two alternatives, one a much smaller barrage
very close to the second Severn Crossing where the port's objections
seem to fall away, although not the environmentalists, and a larger
one from Swansea to Weston-super-Mare where the evidence given
to us was pretty clear that it was not going to be built by 2020
and involved substantial cost and a lot of very unresolved issues.
That is my question on the barrage and I would appreciate your
response.
Ms Morgan: It is quite interesting because
the Welsh Assembly Government have been fairly positive about
at least looking into whether the barrage should be used as a
way of reaching some of these targets. You cannot ignore the fact
that it is going to cost £16 billion, which is a lot of money.
The thing that I keep on mentioning to them is if you are going
to do this it has to comply with European Directives, it has to
comply with the Birds Directive and the Habitats Directive and
there is no way around that. That may cost extra money if you
are going to have to mitigate the effects somewhere else. We have
been through this on a very small scale in Cardiff Bay where they
built a barrage and had to produce a whole area for wildlife somewhere
else. You are talking about a very complicated ecosystem with
a barrage. Having said that, there are real opportunities and
it does make sense for us to at least research further whether
this makes sense. As a constituency MEP, I am seeing it on a much
broader scale and there are real opportunities for training, economic
development and everything, there is a whole package that could
go alongside this, but it is undoubtedly a lot of money and before
opting for it we need to research whether with that £16 billion,
if it was spent on energy efficiency, you would not get a better
result. The difference is, of course, a lot of the money for the
barrage would come from the private sector whereas the private
sector will not put that kind of money into energy efficiency
projects. That is a difficulty.
Q401 Chairman: You saw the Government
announcement by the Minister, Malcolm Wicks, or you must have
read about it, in the House of Commons on Wednesday about a significant
emphasis on wind turbines offshore with a hint of public sector
support in order to meet a large part of the renewables target.
We have been up to Great Yarmouth and had a look at that offshore
wind farm, which certainly looked impressive, and Lord James has
touched upon it with some of our witnesses about some of the technical
and supply chain problems. From your standpoint, what are the
implications for approvals necessary from Europe in terms of state
aid, the Birds and Habitats Directives, the possibility of grid
connection with some of our other colleagues, and one thinks particularly
of Denmark and possibly even Holland?
Ms Morgan: I think state aid is an area
that has not been addressed to the extent that it needs to be.
Up until now, if you are talking about the overall energy take
from renewables being a few percentage points then it is not going
to have a huge effect on price, but if you are talking about 20%,
and in some Member States you have massive state intervention
and in others you do not, then that will bring up competition
issues. Undoubtedly that needs to be addressed and my understanding
is that the Commission is looking at that. Grid connection is
a really important issue. We have to try and ensure a level playing
field and that is quite difficult because why do offshore wind
farms have to pay for their own grid connection whereas if you
are building something on land it is just connected to the grid.
We have got to be very careful about discrimination effectively
against renewables if you are talking about grid connection. We
do need to look at that as well. You cannot get around these European
Directives, they are there for a reason and need to be respected.
You just finish up in years and years of legal wrangling if you
do not respect them. If that does not take us any further you
need to build it into your assessment when you are looking at
where you want to place these things.
Chairman: We have left one minute of
the time available to thank you very much indeed. We will send
you the transcript for correction. Good luck with your specific
responsibilities on unbundling and thank you very much for coming.
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