Examination of Witnesses (Questions 280
- 291)
WEDNESDAY 25 JUNE 2008
Mr Agustin Diaz de Mera Garcia Consuegra
Q280 Chairman:
We have had it suggested to us that there is confusion over the
Commission's ability to co-ordinate the activities of Europol,
and that they do not seem to have a mandate to apply the role
of co-ordinators which might very well be useful.
Mr Diaz de Mera: Europol has a Director
and he has to respond to the Management Board. He is under the
Management Board. The Chair of the Management Board rotates. According
to the Convention there is a new Chair of the Management Board
every six months. This is linked to the European Presidency, to
the country that holds the European Presidency. On the Management
Board there is one member from the European Commission but he
has no real influence over the Europol tasks and all the chiefs
of police of the Member States are represented permanently on
the Management Board of Europol.
Q281 Lord Marlesford:
If I may follow up one of your points on the priorities, you gave
considerable priority to fighting terrorism. I agree: it is an
increasing danger and threat. Yesterday we spent with Europol
and I felt that it was an organisation which was too much linked
purely to the police, and to fight terrorism they need also to
have direct links to the non-police security and intelligence
services of Member countries. What is your view?
Mr Diaz de Mera: That is a very good
question indeed. In my opinion in the European Union there is
a totum revolutum, a chaos, so to speak, as far as intelligence
and information is concerned. There is Europol, there is the situation
centre and there is the co-ordinator for the fight against terrorism.
In theory the co-operation among these three bodies is good but
I think there are too many of them and too many to cope with the
complexity of this terrorist threat.
Q282 Lord Mawson:
The Treaty of Lisbon makes provision for scrutiny of Europol's
activities by the European Parliament together with national parliaments,
and requires the Commission to bring forward regulations setting
out the procedures for this oversight (Article 88(2)). What form
will the European Parliament suggest this oversight should take?
Mr Diaz de Mera: First, the Treaty of
Lisbon has to be approved. If that is the case we will be able
to achieve common policies. The security has to do with common
policies more than anything. If the Treaty of Lisbon is approved
the European Parliament and the national parliaments will be able
to control Europol activities and that is what we suggested and
what the Council did not approve. This mixed committee by the
European Parliament and the national parliaments though would
be very useful.
Q283 Lord Mawson:
If it is not approved do you think our security is seriously vulnerable
as a result of these institutional problems?
Mr Diaz de Mera: The security will remain
basically the same as it is today. The Member States will have
more control over security and the European bodies will have less,
and, as you know, crime is more transnational than ever today.
Q284 Chairman:
When we are talking about oversight, Article 85 of the Treaty
is almost identical to the one we have just been talking about,
Article 88, and Article 85 deals with the oversight of Eurojust.
Would you have given us the same answer if my colleague had asked
you about Eurojust and Article 85?
Mr Diaz de Mera: Basically, my answer
would be yes, it would be the same. I will try to explain. Unfortunately,
we have had very bad experiences which lead me to think that we
should be able to achieve the goal of a court decision in one
country being recognised in another Member State of the European
Union. For that I think we need a record of crimes and of criminals,
a Community kind of record or database. If we had that we would
avoid sad cases like the one we all know, this criminal that committed
a crime in the UK and then went to Spain, to the Costa del Sol,
and killed two teenagers, Sonia Carabantes and Rocio Wanninkhof.
You all know that I am speaking about the Alexander King case.
Q285 Lord Marlesford:
How would the European Parliament suggest measuring the impact
of the new Council Decision on Europol?
Mr Diaz de Mera: As I said before, the
European Parliament is not happy. We are not pleased because our
opinion has not been taken into account but as Rapporteur I think
that what we will do now is freeze our opinion. We will wait to
see if the Lisbon Treaty is approved. If that is the case we will
have the co-decision process and we will ask for the file again.
We will look at this subject again and then we will give our opinion
about Europol.
Q286 Lord Marlesford:
Can I go back to this question of the European Parliament opinion
not being accepted? Do you think this is because of the Commission
at the bureaucratic level or was it as a result of representations
from Coreper to the Commission?
Mr Diaz de Mera: It is obviously a position
of the Council, of the Member States. It is very difficult for
27 Member States to agree, obviously.
Q287 Lord Marlesford:
Which were the most difficult ones?
Mr Diaz de Mera: Due to my age I am being
wise. I will not answer that question.
Q288 Lord Young of Norwood Green:
Touché!
Mr Diaz de Mera: It is a British answer!
Q289 Chairman:
But everything leaks in the European Union. I am sure if we asked
somebody else they would tell us, but we would like to hear it
from you.
Mr Diaz de Mera: As soon as you know
please tell me.
Q290 Lord Young of Norwood Green:
How does the European Parliament currently participate in the
evaluation mechanisms for the implementation of EU policies in
Justice and Home Affairs, in particular in regard to the work
of Community agencies such as Europol?
Mr Diaz de Mera: Thank you very much
for this question. It is a very good question. Our ability to
speak in this kind of evaluation is more apparent than real. Let
me tell you what kind of bodies of people come to speak to my
Committee of Civil liberties, Justice and Home Affairs. Frontex
comes and speaks to us, the European Data Protection Supervisor,
Eurojust, the body which fights against drugs, CEPOL, Europol
through its Director and sometimes the Chair of the Management
Board, the co-ordinator of the fight against terrorism, the director
of the agency for fundamental rights. What they do is they come
to our Committee, they speak to us, they tell us of their goals
and what they do, we ask them some questions and that is it basically,
so what we expect is that if the Lisbon Treaty is approved we
will have more competences.
Q291 Lord Young of Norwood Green:
When you say you will have more competences, does that mean you
will be able to have more rigorous evaluation and will there be
some independent evaluation, a report that you can refer to?
Mr Diaz de Mera: Not only that; we will
be able to suggest and propose many legal amendments in many fields.
Chairman: Mr Diaz de Mera, we are very grateful
to you for coming. You have been very informative. You have been
even better—you have been reasonably brief, for which we
thank you very much. We shall make use, I am sure, of much of
what you have told us. We are hoping to produce our report this
side of Christmas and we shall most certainly send you a copy
of it.
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