Examination of Witnesses (Questions 320-339)
Colonel Andrzej Mackiewicz, Deputy Commander Wojciech
Woloch, Captain Monika Parszewska, Major Stanislaw Zelent and
Captain Piotr Sawicki
24 OCTOBER 2007
Q320 Chairman: Thank you very much,
that is very clear.
Ms Parszewska: As of 1 May 2004 we joined the
European Union and at the same time the border protected by our
unit became the European Union external border section. The length
of the protected border section, as I have already mentioned,
is almost 5,00km long, with Belarus 171km and with the Ukraine
296km. Most of it is the River Bug and it is almost 400km long.
We have also the land border on the southern section and it is
almost 70km long. As you can see, there are 17 border guard posts
that are subordinated to our regional unit. The ones that are
marked with a green square are responsible for both border surveillance
and border traffic control. Those marked with a yellow circle
are responsible for border surveillance. These are the border
crossing points. On the Polish-Belarussian border sector and on
the—route—to Brzesc there are border crossing points
protected by the Border Guard Post in Terespol. In Terespol there
are two border crossing points, one is for passenger traffic and
there is also a railway border crossing point. There is also a
car terminal at Koroszczyn for lorries, along with the border
crossing point in Kukuryki. Moreover, at the Polish-Belarussian
border there is the Slawatycze-Domaczewo border crossing point
for passenger traffic.
Chairman: I am sorry, I do not want to ask questions
which you are going to answer later but could I just be clear,
are these crossing points the only places where you could actually
cross the border or are there bridges which are not protected
by the border guard?
Ms Parszewska: Only the border sector with Belarus?
Q321 Chairman: Between those points
are there other bridges where a car could cross and which you
have to patrol?
Mr Woloch: As I have already mentioned, these
are the only border crossing points on the border sector with
Belarus. In-between the two border guard posts there are other
border guard posts responsible only for border surveillance, so
it is not possible to cross the border, there are no bridges,
it is the green border.
Q322 Chairman: Thank you very much.
Ms Parszewska: Now we have the border sector
between Poland and the Ukraine. Starting from the north, as you
can see, there is the border crossing point where we are right
now, Dorohusk. There is a crossing point for passenger cars and
for lorries. There is also a railway border crossing point here.
The next one is Hrubieszo«w. There is a railway border crossing
point on the route to Wlodzimierz-Wolynski. The last border crossing
point subordinated to our Regional Unit is in Hrebenne. In Hrebenne
there is a road border crossing point for lorries and passenger
cars and there is a railway border crossing.
Q323 Lord Jopling: Can I ask a question
now. Following my Lord Chairman's question, how many crossing
points are there both over the river and over the land border
further south which are not permanently manned?
Mr Woloch: All border crossing points are open
24 hours so it is possible to cross at any time.
Lord Jopling: I did not mean that. Are there
any other ways of crossing the river apart from here?
Lord Young of Norwood Green: Unofficial, illegal?
Q324 Lord Harrison: Unmanned.
Mr Mackiewicz: It is impossible.
Mr Woloch: There are no such points. There are
no temporary border crossings.
Q325 Lord Harrison: Are there not
old roads and bridges which exist? Are there not old roads which
existed before?
Mr Woloch: As far as the border sector on the
River Bug is concerned, in practice at each place where there
is a border bridge there is a border crossing point at the same
time, so there are no additional bridges that are unused. On the
land border there are roads, roads leading directly to the border,
but it is not possible to cross the border at such places, apart
from some special situations when the chief border delegates may
issue a permit to cross the border at some other place apart from
the border crossing points, but special permission is required.
Of course, the persons, who on the basis of such a permit, will
cross the border at such a place, will undergo a routine border
check and these are very rare situations, usually relating to
some regional religious ceremonies.
Q326 Chairman: Do you have no problem
with smugglers trying to get across the river at points where
you do not have a frontier guard?
Mr Woloch: Of course there is such a
threat and there have been cases of attempts to smuggle goods.
In further slides there will be some information relating to smuggling.
There have been cases of illegal immigration and smuggling of
contraband, not only at border crossing points but also in-between.
For example, last month three illegal immigrants were apprehended
when trying to cross the border from Ukraine to Poland. It was
not at a border crossing point but at the green border. I would
like to stop the presentation for a minute. The signal that you
hear is to commemorate the Commander who has died. (One minute's
silence was observed) Thank you. I would like to go back to the
previous slide. The squares are used to mark the border crossing
points and the circles are the border guard posts used for border
surveillance, for protection of the green border. I would like
to explain some things on illegal immigration and related things
will be discussed later. Cross-border crime may be encountered
both at the green border and at border crossing points. As far
as illegal immigration is concerned, at border crossing points
it is mainly forgery of documents and attempts to avoid border
checks. I would like to add that as far as the checks of trucks
and lorries are concerned, in previous years there were cases
of people trying to cross the border illegally hiding in trucks,
and not only trucks but in vans and smaller vehicles.
Q327 Chairman: Could I just ask,
on the other side of the border are there Belarus and Ukrainian
posts opposite all your frontier posts? Do you find co-operation
with the Belarus and Ukrainian authorities is good?
Mr Woloch: As far as co-operation is
concerned, that will be discussed later on because there are some
slides relating to that. Of course, there are some border guard
posts on the opposite side and each border guard post has its
counterpart on the other side.
Q328 Chairman: That was what I wanted
to know.
Mr Woloch: You must remember that in
the past it used to be the border with the Soviet Union. It is
worth mentioning here that the number of border guard posts on
the opposite side is even bigger than here and this especially
refers to the Belarussian sector.
Q329 Chairman: Thank you.
Mr Woloch: Going back to the attempts
of the smuggling of people, there are no such attempts in vehicles
right now. At all border crossing points that are designed for
cargo we have special equipment which is an x-ray and all the
vehicles are checked. There is equipment such as Heimann, which
is also a kind of x-ray. The Heimann is used to check all the
lorries that have customs seals and you cannot open them. We have
also heartbeat detectors for detection of heart beating in closed
spaces. In practice, since the installation of such equipment
at border crossing points, there have been no attempts at illegal
immigration in vehicles but, of course, it sometimes happens at
the green border. As an example, three immigrants were caught
last time. As far as smuggling of goods is concerned, not long
ago during a weekend we stopped cigarettes that were smuggled
across the River Bug.
Q330 Chairman: What do you do if
you find an illegal immigrant in a truck? Are they sent back?
Mr Woloch: There is a procedure when
an immigrant is caught and some papers have to be prepared. When
the procedure is completed, they are sent back to the country
they illegally came from.
Q331 Chairman: I am sorry, I keep
interrupting, but if somebody applies for asylum at the border
what do you do?
Mr Woloch. If the apprehended immigrant
does not apply for a refugee status, after having completed the
procedure relating to illegal border crossing, they are sent back
to the country they illegally came from. If such a person applies
for a refugee status, the procedure is instituted concerning granting
the refugee status. However, such cases are not numerous as far
as people are concerned who have already crossed the border. It
mostly refers to people who are not entitled to cross the border
but they reach the border crossing point and at the crossing point
itself they apply for refugee status before even crossing the
border. These are mostly citizens of Russian Federation of Chechen
origin.
Q332 Lord Harrison: Before we move
on, could I ask about the trains. Do the trains stop and do you
get on board to check them, or are they checked by passport control
and border control whilst they are moving over the border?
Mr Woloch: There is a border station
used for such checks of trains and their passengers. There are
special control teams and they search for cargo hidden in compartments.
There are also some control teams to deal with passport checks.
Q333 Chairman: But the train has
to stop?
Mr Woloch: Yes. At each border crossing
point. At the same time, when the train stops, passport control
is carried out, and also customs control and radiometric control.
At all border crossing points there are radiometric gates installed
and that applies to the railway and road border crossing points.
Apart from that, members of the control teams have special mobile
equipment for detection of documents forgery and radioactive materials.
Q334 Chairman: Do you use dogs?
Mr Woloch: Yes, of course. The dogs we
have here on duty are specially trained to detect persons, drugs,
weapons, ammunition and explosives. We also have some sniffer
dogs and patrol and attack dogs.
Ms Parszewska: I will continue.
Q335 Chairman: I am sorry, we make
your work very slow.
Ms Parszewska: That is not a problem. You have
already asked about illegal immigration and here you can see some
information on the main threats at the border section protected
by our unit. As you can see, the first threat is the migration
of nationals of Asian and ex-Soviet Union countries. There is
also the smuggling of goods and these are mostly cigarettes. Sometimes
it is alcohol, but in a small amount. In terms of smuggling of
works of art, narcotics and weapons—they are smuggled to
Poland and to the West. Members of criminal groups come from the
East to Poland. Smuggling of stolen vehicles—takes place
from Western countries and Poland to the East.
Q336 Chairman: How much information
do you have here about, for instance, stolen vehicles? Are you
informed by someone that vehicles have been stolen and you are
asked to look out for them?
Mr Woloch: As far as stolen vehicles
are concerned, the control of vehicles takes place at several
different levels. This information is included on IT databases
and we have access to all information concerning stolen vehicles
that are searched for. The next stage is to verify the documentation
for the vehicle in respect of forgery and control of identification
features of a particular vehicle and, of course, operational materials
we have at our disposal because we are entitled to carry out some
operational activities. For example, I would like to tell you
that in 2006 402 stolen vehicles were seized and in the first
half of this year 146 vehicles.
Q337 Chairman: Were they all Polish
vehicles or were some of them coming from elsewhere?
Mr Woloch: These are vehicles that were
stolen in the whole of Europe, but not only Europe. Sometimes
these are vehicles stolen in the United States and they reach
Europe on a ferry and in the framework of transit they go to the
Ukraine.
Q338 Chairman: Thank you very much.
Ms Parszewska: I have some statistics and you
can see the performance of statutory duties. This is some information
about the refugees from Chechnya because they constitute a special
problem at the border with Belarus. As you can see, in 2006 more
than 3,000 persons of Chechen origin applied for refugee status
and in 2005 more than 4,600.
Mr Woloch: I would like to stop here
for a moment. In the last four years we have observed a decrease
in illegal immigration at the border sector with the Ukraine.
In spite of the fact that it is still high, it is much lower than
four years ago. This year we have started to note that there is
an increase in illegal immigration at the border sector with Belarus.
Of course, the general proportions are to the disadvantage of
Ukraine, as there are bigger numbers of illegals at this border
sector. However, this year, and in particular in the second half
of this year, there has been a significant increase in illegal
immigration at the Belarussian border sector.
Q339 Chairman: Can I ask, have you
or the Ukrainian or Belarus authorities been able to identify
any of the people smugglers, the people actually sending these
illegal immigrants across the border?
Mr Woloch: Of course we have. Speaking
of illegal immigration, I think mostly of organised illegal immigration.
There have been cases of individual border crossing but the main
threat is the organised illegal immigration that is conducted
by organised groups. We pay most attention to the detection of
organisers of such illegal immigration and we want to send them
to the prosecutor. I would like to show you an example which happened
one and a half months ago when we managed to detect a smuggling
channel. During a month we apprehended two groups and these were
nationals of China. One group included ten persons and the other
one 18. In the framework of the operational and investigation
work we also apprehended 12 organisers and facilitators from different
levels of cross-border criminal groups, not only at the border
itself but also inside the country, those who, in a way, commissioned
such illegal border crossings. They were at the top of the criminal
hierarchy. At this moment there are some penal proceedings under
way.
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