Examination of Witnesses (Questions 180
- 184)
TUESDAY 24 JULY 2007
RT HON
BOB AINSWORTH
MP, MR DESMOND
BOWEN CMG AND
BRIGADIER CHRIS
HUGHES CBE
Q180 Chairman: Before you move on
to helicopters, Minister, when we were in Basra a couple of weeks
ago we were told that the senior officers there were very satisfied
indeed with the equipment that they had had.
Mr Ainsworth: I got exactly the
same.
Mr Jenkins: Did you want to congratulate
the—
Chairman: I just wanted to repeat what
we had been told.
Q181 Mr Jenkins: I made no assertion
as to any different! Proof of the helicopter availability. We
get constant comments about the fact that we have a shortage of
helicopter availability, which is denied by the Department. How
does the Department evaluate the helicopter availability we have
got? It must be a concern to them that we are using up our equipment
at a far faster rate than was envisaged when we first purchased
them. There must be other purchases in the pipeline. How many
helicopters do we need to replace the ones we have burned out
now? What is available? Can you do us an assessment of the availability
on demand rather than the availability monitored by the amount
of crews we have got, by the amount of helicopters we have got,
or by the maintenance regime it has to undertake? What is the
gap between those three and the actual demand required by our
services?
Mr Ainsworth: The first thing
to say is that forces out in operating areas have the first call
on resources. Of the helicopters we have got, obviously, we want
the maximum number out there, in the field, supporting our troops.
However, that does lead to pressures elsewhere and does mean:
do we have sufficient kit at home to maintain adequate training
programmes to bring on crews, and the rest of it? So it is not
as simple as: do the troops in Iraq have enough helicopters? There
are all kinds of other pressures. If you want us to do a note
on that then we will give you a note. Pressures do arise in other
areas, not necessarily in the operating—
Q182 Mr Jenkins: I did not think
it was simple; I think it is very, very complex and very difficult.
Mr Ainsworth: I thought you said
you were asking simple questions!
Q183 Mr Jenkins: I will tell you
one thing: never listen to a politician. If you tell me that we
are holding helicopters back for training in this country and
denying our frontline troops the use of helicopters, then that
would be a most serious—I do not think you meant that at
all.
Mr Ainsworth: That is not what
I am telling you at all; I am saying that the pressures on the
helicopter fleet tend to come out in areas other than the operating
area. That is our first priority, and meeting their needs is the
first priority. That means that we wind up with problems elsewhere—which
should not be denied. On an ongoing basis, the ability to continue
to train and to bring people on is important.
Mr Jenkins: Of course, and if you can
give us a note on that we would be very grateful.[5]
Q184 Chairman: Minister, these are
questions to which I do not expect you to have an answer because
I did not give you any prior warning of them. Last year we travelled
in Warriors into Basra Palace and the heat in those Warriors was
quite phenomenal. We were told last year that the medical personnel
out there were extremely concerned that there would be a heat
related fatality that was nothing to do with enemy action. This
year we met the helicopter crews that manned the casualty evacuations.
They told us that they had had a lot of work to do relating to
heat casualties. I wonder whether there is some trade-off between
the amount of money that one could spend on putting some air conditioning
into some of the vehicles that we are providing compared with
the cost of evacuating people through heat related casualties,
quite apart from the fact that the better conditions we put our
Armed Forces into the better management of people there would
be and the fairer it would be to the people who are putting their
lives on the line on a daily basis. I wonder if you could do us
something, when you answer the questions from Brian Jenkins, about
that.
Mr Ainsworth: Okay.[6]
Chairman: I do not know whether there
are any further questions. There will be some questions that we
want to ask you in writing about detainees, because there are
some very important issues we want to pursue on that. No further
questions. Then the session is over. Many thanks.
5 See Ev 36 Back
6
See Ev 36 Back
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