Examination of Witnesses (Questions 600
- 619)
600. MR REED: Can I ask you please to
be provided with—and I think you already have a copy of
it—an extract from Railways for All, a policy document produced
by the Government. My Lords, there is a copy I understand being
handed up to you. You will be receiving a bundle of documents
which will be relevant to the questions that I will be asking
Dr Maynard. They are only extracts and limited in nature. Within
that bundle there should be one of the documents headed "Railways
for All—The Accessibility Strategy for Britain's Railways".
601. CHAIRMAN: Yes, we have certainly
got that.
602. MR REED: I am grateful to you, Lord
Chairman, for that. Are you aware that the Railways for All document
then led to the Access for All policy approach of the Government?
(Dr Maynard) Yes.
603. Can we understand then what informed the
Government's approach to lead to the production of the Access
for All policy? Can I ask you please to turn to page 2 of that
Railways for All document and the foreword in particular
and the third paragraph down: "However, we recognise that
there are challenges on the railway. The rail network can be a
difficult environment for disabled people. With around 10 million
disabled people, it is important that our society takes steps
to remove barriers which restrict access."[20]
And you would not have disagreement with that policy approach?
(Dr Maynard) Absolutely none.
604. CHAIRMAN: Mr Reed, what is the date
of this document roughly? I see it is signed by Mr Twigg, so it
is certainly within this Government.
605. MR REED: My Lord, I understand that
it is round about 2006. I apologise for not knowing the specific
date. March 2006.
606. CHAIRMAN: Fine.
607. MR REED: Going over the page, if
we can Dr Maynard, to page 3 and under "Background"
at 1.2, we can see that point reiterated where the Government
says: "There is no single measure or estimate of disability,
but the most recent figures for the number of disabled people
in Britain is around 10 million. Government policy underlines
the importance of mainstreaming the needs and requirements of
different social groups. The Government values the importance
of social inclusion and providing access to affordable transport
services is a key part in improving welfare."[21]
The Government's approach in general terms is to recognise the
importance of public transport for improving the well-being of
the disabled or mobility impaired?
(Dr Maynard) Yes.
608. Go on, if you will please, to page 5 and
I want you to turn, if you would, to paragraph 2.1 of that document
on that page under "Disability in Great Britain" and
you will see a second paragraph there saying: "Transport
is essential for providing access to employment, health services,
education and leisure pursuits. Disabled people are particularly
dependent on public transport with 60 per cent of disabled people
having no car in the household, compared with 27 per cent of the
general population. But spontaneous travel is difficult or impossible
for many disabled people. Indeed a survey for the Disabled Persons
Transport Advisory Committee 2002 showed that disabled people
made only two-thirds as many journeys as non-disabled people."[22]
Again, that is the Government reiterating the importance for the
disabled generally that that there is full and adequate public
transport; is that right?
(Dr Maynard) Yes.
609. Just so I can pick up on one matter that
arose during the presentation. In respect of the advance warning
that is necessary on the rail network; is that going to be the
case with Crossrail?
(Dr Maynard) It has not yet been decided as to whether that
is the case with Crossrail. It may have to be at external stations
outside the middle bit where it is already the case on the national
rail network. It depends who the operator is.
610. It may have to be and it may not have to
be?
(Dr Maynard) It may not have to be. Perhaps by then it will
not be anyway.
611. Thank you very much. If you can go on to
another of those documents, the Equality Impact Assessment, it
is the grey-coloured document. This set out, did it not, the position
of Crossrail as at January 2006?
(Dr Maynard) Yes.
612. Tell me, did you have a hand in the drafting
of any of this document, Dr Maynard?
(Dr Maynard) Yes, I had a hand in the drafting of it.
613. So you advised on its content and disagreed
with those parts that you did not think should be in the document?
(Dr Maynard) Yes.
614. At the end of that process did you disagree
with any part of it?
(Dr Maynard) Sorry, it is a long time since January 2006.
I cannot remember whether I disagreed with any particular part
of it. What I can remember is that I agreed with the general thrust
of it because it was about trying to improve issues for the seven
equality strands in relation to Crossrail in relation to its planning,
its construction and its operation, so all three aspects of Crossrail.
A lot of it was relating to the construction side of it. I do
remember that I did not disagree with the general thrust of it.
I also have to point out that in relation to the actual detail
of specific bits of it, as I was advising on the overall generic
document, I may not have been actually au fait with very
specific details in it, so there may have been bits that I neither
agreed nor disagreed with.
615. Very good, thank you for that. Turn on
please to the extract that I hope you have within that bundle
which is page 7 in the top right-hand corner, under Methodology
Development; do you have that?[23]
(Dr Maynard) Yes.
616. In the third paragraph: "The project
consists of a number ... "—that is the Crossrail project,
is it not, Dr Maynard?
(Dr Maynard) Sorry, third paragraph?
617. Forgive me, it is the fourth main paragraph,
it is my misreading. "The project consists of ... "—that
is the Crossrail project—"a number of separate infrastructure
components whose effects vary between locality and priority group.
On a wider community level the new railway will have social and
economic effects by delivering affordable and accessible travel
for London and the South-East, and at a local level by supporting
regeneration and by providing new and improved transport infrastructure".
That is the general intent of Crossrail, is it not?
(Dr Maynard) Yes.
618. That is to say the Promoters of Crossrail
and they acknowledge that it is going to be a new railway, do
they not?
(Dr Maynard) Yes, they use the term "new
railway" but it uses parts of the existing rail infrastructure.
619. As a generality, if one was dealing with
a new railway and if one wanted to deliver affordable and accessible
travel, the usual way to do that would be to ensure such accessibility
at each station?
(Dr Maynard) The usual way to do that
is to ensure accessibility where possible, reasonable, et cetera,
and to try and mitigate the problems where there are problems
that cannot be overcome. It goes back to, if I can just elaborate
on that, the example that I gave of the Sheffield tram system
where it was a new system but it hit up against existing infrastructure
at Sheffield mainline station and there access was not provided
until considerably later.
20 Committee Ref: A1, Department for Transport, Railways
for All Strategy, March 2006, p3 (SCN-20080226-001) Back
21
Committee Ref: A1, Department for Transport, Railways for
All Strategy, March 2006, p5 (SCN-20080226-002) Back
22
Committee Ref: A1, Department for Transport, Railways for
All Strategy, March 2006, p7 (SCN-20080226-003) Back
23
Department for Transport, Crossrail Equality Impact and Assessment,
January 2006, p7 (SCN-20080226-004) Back
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