Examination of Witnesses (Questions 6060
- 6079)
6060. CHAIRMAN: I have been avidly reading
their Petition.
6061. MS LIEVEN: I would not read it
too avidly, my Lords, inasmuch as the principal point in contention
is relatively limited—it is one about timing of the works.
I will make a fairly full opening tomorrow (I think it would be
inappropriate to say very much about it at all today) on why we
need to retain the full powers in the Bill. If your Lordship has
read the Petition you will know there is a vast tranche of engineering
points. I believe it is unlikely that any of those will be raised—it
is possible that one might be, but a relatively discrete issue.
I would not, if I was a Member of the Committee, waste time on
getting into the depths of that part of the Canary Wharf Petition.
It is a discrete point, really, about the powers in the Bill and
on which we are in negotiations with them.
6062. The next Petitioner is Wood Wharf, who
I think we are very close to agreement with.
6063. CHAIRMAN: It is the same sort of
point, is it not?
6064. MS LIEVEN: No, my Lord, it is not
actually. Although they are both financially and physically close
to each other, the Wood Wharf points are more about how we carry
out the works, where the barges go and very precise engineering
issues, which we are doing our utmost to agree with them, but
I cannot say, at this stage, that it is definitely agreed.
6065. As far as the Trustees of the SS Robin
is concerned, we are in discussion with them. I think there will
just be a short statement tomorrow, and that should take very
little time indeed.
6066. CHAIRMAN: It is all about their
heritage fund status and getting the ship out.
6067. MS LIEVEN: Your Lordships and your
Ladyship will not be concerned with the detail of that tomorrow
at all; we are in productive discussions with them and I think
that there will be a brief statement tomorrow explaining that
those productive discussions are still ongoing.
6068. BARONESS FOOKES: It has moved on
since our site visit?
6069. MS LIEVEN: It has moved on a little
since the site visit, my Lady. I understand it is all going quite
well. We are not quite there yet, and there will just be a brief
mention tomorrow to say: "We're moving in the right direction",
and hopefully everything will be agreed before this Committee
completes its business in May.
6070. The only other one is the Association
of West India Dock Commercial Ship Owners, which your Lordships
and your Ladyship will remember were the other boats in North
Dock—
6071. CHAIRMAN: The floating church.
6072. MS LIEVEN: The floating church,
and there is a restaurant and a couple of others. They are coming
but I have seen their exhibits; they are on relatively short points.
In the main we have reached agreement with them but there are
a few points outstanding, which they will go through, but I do
not anticipate them taking very long. The main business tomorrow
will be the Canary Wharf Group.
6073. CHAIRMAN: My recollection is that
they are afraid that if you put all the silt into their end of
the dock they will not be able to move the ships as necessary,
and their insurance policy will be damaged.
6074. MS LIEVEN: I think it is largely
now about the terms of their insurance policy and who pays for
what, rather than any engineering issues about whether or not
they can stay or go and what has to be done. It has come down,
pretty much, to a compensation and insurance issue.
6075. CHAIRMAN: I think all these things
are the sort of details that it is very unlikely that the Committee
is going to be able to deal with itself; they are the sort of
things that will have to be done in negotiations.
6076. MS LIEVEN: Yes, absolutely, my
Lord. As I said, the main issue is likely to be tomorrow with
the Canary Wharf Group, but given the sensitivity of negotiations
with them and the obvious sensitivity of their relationship with
the Promoters, I really do not want to say any more about that
in their absence. They will be here tomorrow in full force, I
am sure.
6077. LORD BROOKE OF ALVETHORPE: And
Thursday?
6078. MS LIEVEN: The main issue on Thursday,
my Lord, is highly likely to be the City of London Corporation
who, at last count, are raising two main issues: one is works
at the Isle of Dogs, because they are the freeholders of the Billingsgate
Market, and there are a couple of outstanding issues around that.
Then there is an issue around noise at the Barbican Hall, and
the implication of doing compensatory grouting, if we have to
do such compensatory grouting. Your Lordships will have the pleasure,
on the Promoters' side, of hearing Professor Mair, Mr Taylor on
noise and Mr Berryman on engineering. So we will have the full
panoply of our witnesses for you on Thursday on the Barbican,
and as far as I know that is likely to appear before your Lordships.
In relation to the Isle of Dogs, there is a further meeting tonight,
so it may be possible to narrow the issues further.
6079. Blaxmill, I understand, are very close
to settlement. Coal Pensions, the last time I heard, may attend.
Mr Walker had indicated it is 50/50 on Coal Pensions, but if they
do attend it is largely an issue around compensation, again—compensation
for loss of car parking. The fourth Petitioner on Thursday is
Souzel, who are the long leaseholders of a large office block
in Moorfields, and the only issue outstanding with them is the
date of purchase and the compensatory consequences of that. So
that will be a matter for Mr Smith to give evidence on, if they
attend.
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