Examination of Witnesses (Questions 7780
- 7799)
7780. CHAIRMAN: So we cannot do it anyway?
7781. MS LIEVEN: Well, it might be better
to stop for a few minutes.
7782. CHAIRMAN: Is there evidence that
we could spend our time reading?
7783. MS LIEVEN: I am told by Mr Mould
that he is happy to start now, my Lord, so perhaps we will just
plunge on with it.
7784. CHAIRMAN: Can I just explain to
the Petitioners the system that we have been adopting. Technically,
you start, but it has been found to be convenient if the Promoters
say a word in advance factually to describe what the situation
is. We will not go any further than that until your team is complete,
but I think that might usefully put us in the picture. Very well,
Mr Mould.
The following Petition against the Bill was read:
The Petition of the Trustees of The House of St Barnabas-in-Soho.
THE REVEREND
ADAM SCOTT
and DAVID MONRO
appeared on behalf of the Petitioners.
Jeremy Pickering appeared as Agent.
7785. MR MOULD: My Lord, the next Petitioners
are the Trustees of The House of St Barnabas-in-Soho. I have put
up a plan just to show you and we have shaded in purple the Petitioners'
premises and outlined the actual area of the property in red.[1]
This is Soho Square (indicating) and this street, as you will
be very familiar with, is Greek Street, and I would also draw
attention to Manette Street here (indicating). Now, the grey shading
that you see in the vicinity of Soho Square and just to the west
of Tottenham Court Road shows the broad outline of the Crossrail
Tottenham Court Road Station and, as you can see, the westbound
running tunnel as it passes into the Tottenham Court Road Crossrail
Station is situated in part in subsoil beneath the Petitioner's
premises and will be constructed as such.
The Petition of David Monro and Adam Scott—The
House of St Barnabas-in-Soho
7786. CHAIRMAN: That running tunnel must
go further to the east, but it has not been shaded.
7787. MR MOULD: That is right, yes. Mr
Berryman quite rightly corrects me, I am being slightly imprecise
about it. It is a platform tunnel and of course the running tunnel
runs to the east. The Petitioner's property comprises two very
valuable historic buildings 1 Greek Street which is situated at
the south-eastern corner of Soho Square, and the Chapel which
is situated on the northern side of Manette Street. The first
of those buildings is a very fine Georgian town house and the
second of them is a Victorian religious building with associations
with the Oxford Movement. Both of them, reflecting their high
value both historically and architecturally, are listed in the
statutory list at Grade I, and the Petitioners, as I understand
it, and they will explain this in due course, are entrusted with
the ownership, preservation and use of those buildings for charitable
purposes.
7788. As regards the impact or potential impact
of the scheme upon those buildings, plainly your Lordships will
recognise that first and foremost in terms of consideration is
the question of ground settlement. As your Lordships will recall,
we have an established process for assessing ground settlement
which is in progress and has reached a certain stage. In relation
to these buildings, we have reached the Phase Three, Stage One
stage and we have included in your packs, and I have shown the
first page on the screen, the assessment report in relation to
the Petitioners' buildings.[2]
7789. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: Can
I just go back to the map of Soho Square.[3]
Last week we heard the Petition of Mr Pritchett about blocks of
flats that were being pulled down. Could you point out precisely
where they are because we also will be dealing with dust later,
will we not, arising from demolition?
7790. MR MOULD: I am not sure that that
is going to feature as a specific issue for your Lordships. I
know it is in the Petition, but I do not think it is part of the
particular concerns which the Petitioners are going to raise,
and I will be corrected if I am wrong on that. The location of
Mr Pritchett's premises is not shown on this plan. It is to the
west, just off Dean Street. My geography of Soho is not entirely
specific, but I seem to recall that it goes Greek Street, Frith
Street, Dean Street and I think Ronnie Scott's is on Frith Street!
As you will recall, it is the western ticket hall that is the
source of Mr Pritchett being displaced and this is closer to the
east.
7791. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: Mr Mould,
I think Ronnie Scott's is on Wardour Street!
7792. MR MOULD: It is an article of faith
that one never disagrees with a member of the Committee, but I
believe it is on Frith Street—
7793. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: Are you
of a gambling disposition?
7794. MR MOULD:—but I will not
ask your Lordships to rule on that! If we can return to the assessment
report, we have included this in your packs, but suffice to say
that at this stage in the assessment process these buildings are
assessed to experience a moderate risk of settlement damage from
the works and the degree of sensitivity internally and externally
of these buildings, having regard to their historic and architectural
features—and I am putting up the relevant page just to show
you the familiar table.[4]
Yes, at the bottom of the page you can see that we have set out
the classification of damage table here and you can see that the
maximum tensile strain predicted for this building is 0.283 per
cent and that fits in towards the upper end of the moderate category
of risk of damage, that is to say, category 3. So this is a building
which, not only as regards its sensitive and important historical
and architectural characteristics, but also as regards the risk
classification that we have applied to it, will require very careful
further consideration at appraisal.
7795. CHAIRMAN: That would include the
interior?
7796. MR MOULD: That would include the
interior and that will be dealt with at the next stage of the
process, the second stage of phase three, and hereafter the programme
is that the works should be undertaken here in about late 2011/2012,
a very detailed process of appraisal, the identification of appropriate
protective and preventative measures both underground and also
outside the building itself which will need to be considered and
set in place. The one thing I want to make very clear at the outset
is that we, for our part, are committed that that process should
be undertaken closely in association with the Petitioners and
their expert advisers and the agreement that we are negotiating
with them at the moment should provide for that, as well of course
as the input of English Heritage and of the local planning authority,
Westminster City Council, who, as your Lordships know, have important
roles in terms of ensuring that any preventative or remedial works
that are undertaken to buildings of this kind are entirely appropriate
and sensitive to their existing historic character.
7797. Those matters, as far as we are concerned,
are all given. They are provided for under the settlement process
and the Settlement Deed that we have referred you to in the past,
but in this case also we are in the process of negotiating a bespoke
agreement with the Petitioners and that will make certain additional
provisions, for example, as regards us meeting the reasonable
costs of a number of experts whom the Petitioners would wish to
have instructed to participate fully in the process of appraising
and providing for the public protection and remediation of this
building from any effects resulting from the Crossrail scheme.
7798. CHAIRMAN: So it will be a super-Settlement
Deed?
7799. MR MOULD: Indeed so, in that sense,
yes. In that way, it is, I hope I can say fairly, the joint expectation
and intention of both ourselves and the Petitioners that the potential
risk, which I have referred you to which of course relates to
unmitigated settlement with appropriate mitigation both before,
during and after the works have been undertaken, as is required
in order to keep the building safe, that that risk will not stand
any chance of eventuating. That is all I want to say at this stage
about ground settlement.
1 Crossrail Ref: P53, Petitioners' property and the
The House of St Barnabas-in-Soho-Plan (WESTCC-36_04-001) Back
2
Crossrail Ref: P53, House of St. Barnanbas, 1 Greek Street-Historic
Building & Features-Phase 3 Stage 1 Iteration Reports (WESTCC-36_05-001) Back
3
Crossrail Ref: P53, Petitioners' property and the The House of
St Barnabas-in-Soho-Plan (WESTCC-36_04-001) Back
4
Crossrail Ref: P53, 1 Greek Street-General Description-Phase
3 Stage 1 Iteration Reports (WESTCC-36_05-008) Back
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