Examination of Witnesses (Questions 9580
- 9599)
9580. CHAIRMAN: Now we have got the second
half of EWS.
9581. MR ELVIN: No, we have now got Heathrow
Western Link first and I was going to recall Mr Berryman to provide
some more information on the position at Heathrow and indeed a
BAA proposal, in fact, to create an air link, which apparently
is further advanced than I thought it was last week. We can give
you some information on that.
MR KEITH
BERRYMAN, recalled Re-examined
by MR ELVIN
9582. MR ELVIN: Mr Berryman, can I ask
you to return to the question of Heathrow and access to Heathrow
Airport. Can I ask you to outline again what the current position
is with regard to access?
(Mr Berryman) Yes. As I think I started to explain
at the previous session, the present rail link access to Heathrow,
the present heavy rail access to Heathrow, because there is also
an Underground access, but the heavy rail is what we are talking
about today, was financed and constructed by BAA Limited on a
branch from Airport Junction on the Great Western Line south towards
Heathrow. Could we have the plan up, please. Most if this is in
tunnel, but they also paid for electrification of the four Great
Western lines between Airport Junction and Paddington and some
modifications at Paddington and a new depot at Old Oak Common.
In total BAA invested around £750 million in this project.
The map in front of you shows the layout of the airport.[42]
The first station in the airport serves Terminals 1, 2 and 3.
The railway then splits into two branches. One goes round to Terminal
4 and that was the original branch which was built by BAA some
ten years or so ago, and the other branch goes across to Terminal
5, and that is a branch which was opened in the last few months.
There are two train services going to Heathrow. Heathrow Express
consists of four trains per hour from Paddington non-stop to Heathrow,
first stop is the central terminal. Before the opening of Terminal
5, those trains went through to Terminal 4. There is also a Heathrow
Connect service which goes from Paddington but stops at intermediate
stations between Paddington and Airport Junction and that uses
the relief lines. That then goes into the same central area terminal
and also went around to Terminal 4. Before Terminal 5 was built
all of the train services went into Terminal 4. Since Terminal
5 opened the Heathrow Express services have gone into Terminal
5 and the Connect services have continued to go into Terminal
4, but in addition what happens is the Connect service comes around
to Terminal 4 and then goes back to the central area terminals
and back to Terminal 4 before it makes its return run to Paddington.
It is a kind of shuttle and it gives a 15 minute service between
the central area terminals and Terminal 4 and a 15 minute service
between the central areas and Terminal 5. Passengers on Heathrow
Express who are travelling to Terminal 4 get off the Heathrow
Express at the central area terminals and get on to a Heathrow
Connect service which takes them directly to Terminal 4. As I
explained earlier, this rail link between the terminals is one
of the main inter-terminal routes on the railway. The London Underground
connection does not provide a service between central area terminals
and Terminal 4 because of the geometry of the Underground lines.
This is the only link which exists. BAA recently invested a further
£250 million in building this link from the central area
terminals to Terminal 5. What is intended to happen when Crossrail
opens is we will subsume the Heathrow Connect service, so what
is currently a stopping service between Paddington and Terminal
4 will become a Crossrail service and we will double the frequency.
It is currently every half hour from Paddington to Terminal 4,
it will go to every 15 minutes and the shuttle that I mentioned
before will be discontinued.
9583. MR ELVIN: So Crossrail will go
through the central section?
(Mr Berryman) Yes.
9584. And then go out to Terminal 4?
(Mr Berryman) Yes. I think it is worth just noting the geometry
here. To all intents and purposes, it is impossible to serve both
Terminal 4 and Terminal 5 with the layout of the buildings on
the airport. BAA, who obviously run the airport, believe it is
important that both Terminal 4 and Terminal 5 should have four
trains per hour and they are very anxious to maximize the modal
share of public transport to the airport. One of the problems
with airport expansion is not just the aircraft, it is how people
get to the airport and the surface movement. BAA are very anxious
that as many people as possible will use public transport. Splitting
services between the two terminals, so for example one Crossrail
went to here (indicating) and one Crossrail went to Terminal 4
and vice versa with Heathrow Express, could give rise to different
expectations of passengers, so passengers would not be quite sure
which train they should get on to go to their destination. It
is felt to be very desirable for a number of reasons and this
is just one of them, that the same train service goes to the same
terminal but that is done consistently. I think I mentioned in
my earlier presentation, BAA and a number of the other airlines,
including British Airways, regard the non-stop Heathrow Express
service to London as a key commercial objective for the airports.
It is an established premium service and it is intended—we
had a few jokes about this in the previous session—to match
the experience of the business class of going through Terminal
5. Heathrow Express does serve a different market from Crossrail
and from Heathrow Connect. A lot of the people who use Heathrow
Express have ultimate destinations fairly close to Paddington
Station. The normal practice of people coming from overseas is
to get the Heathrow Express into Paddington and then get a cab
to their hotel. It is much easier for them to do that because
they do not know their way around London and the cab drivers will
take them directly to their destination. For Crossrail to take
over Heathrow Express, which is one of the ideas that has been
mooted, we would need access from our Crossrail tunnels on to
the fast lines of the Great Western and that is not possible within
the scope of the present scheme. A flat junction would clearly
be impossible because of the number of conflicting movements.
The only way you could do it would be with a flyover and that
would be very, very difficult to find space for in the area. If
Heathrow Express used the relief lines, it would be a very slow
journey because it would be behind stopping trains all the way.
It would also reduce the number of either Crossrail trains or
freight trains that could operate on the Great Western Main Line.
The other point to make is that in practice we have only got four
paths which we can use for Heathrow, that is what has been allocated
in the access option. Heathrow Express have only got four paths,
so there are only eight paths in total to divide between the airports
and this is the arrangement which appears to be satisfactory.
We have also looked at west-facing connections and, again, we
were slightly wrong-footed the other day because we were not really
expecting it to be a big issue. The two options we looked at were
a west-facing curve at Airport Junction, at the existing Airport
Junction, which in practice is impossible to fit into the site
because of the constraints of the site and the geometry of the
lines, how they intersect and a loop line via the existing Colnbrook
Branch. Could we have Slide 6, please?[43]
This is the idea that the gentleman from the Green Party put on
the screen the other day. The line he was showing was from a closer
aerial photograph than this, but it goes around there (indicating)
and loops around to join the Great Western there. What he was
suggesting was that a loop should be built this way round to join
the Great Western there so that trains could move in that way.
This is talking about a possible junction and you can see there
is an existing curve which goes from the existing single track
line here (indicating) and goes round to join the Great Western
facing that way. Again, the geometry is that the lines do not
cross at 90 degrees, they cross at an oblique angle. The curve
required from this end will be much bigger and longer. Also, this
has a 15 mile per hour speed limit on it, so to solve that problem
you would need quite a big curve through here. It would need to
be more gently curved and more gently graded than the existing
loop. It would go through this group of lakes, which will be difficult
to get consent for, I imagine. Then it will go through the treatment
works of the Three Valleys Water Company. This waterworks is regarded
as strategic infrastructure because it provides the drinking water
for a very large area of the Thames Valley. Of course, if we went
through there we would have to re-provide for that facility, which
would be a very expensive and difficult operation. Three Valleys
Water also own the lakes here as well. We are not sure whether
they are a site of special scientific interest or not and in the
time available we have not been able to confirm that, but there
is certainly a habitat for wildlife. If you were to use this loop
to send trains via Heathrow and back through this loop and back
out towards Reading, it would give a very long journey time for
people making that journey. It has been suggested that long distance
trains from the West Country could run directly into Heathrow
if such a line was built, but the point there is that diesel trains
are not allowed to go into Underground stations and almost by
definition the stations at the airport have to be underground.
It would mean that only electric trains could go into and use
that system, which would severely limit the number of destinations
or origin points which would be possible to use.
9585. What is the position with regard to the
type of trains that operate on the Great Western?
(Mr Berryman) Well, at the moment all the trains which operate
on the Great Western are diesel trains and, even with the Crossrail
electrification, it would only be trains from Maidenhead which
would be electric.
9586. So trains from a longer distance would
not be permitted into the tunnels and the stations to Heathrow?
(Mr Berryman) No, that is right. There are other problems
as well with the widening of this single-track branch into a two-track
railway which are to do with the M4 and the M25 where the line
goes through the junction there. The Department for Transport
have looked at west-facing rail links from Heathrow to the Great
Western Main Line to allow that kind of direct train service that
I spoke of before because it is raised by stakeholders from time
to time. They are currently looking at a route utilisation strategy
for the Great Western Main Line and that might provide an opportunity
to revisit that proposal, but, I have to say, speaking as an engineer
and thinking of the practical problems, I think it is unlikely
that that will be a scheme that is adopted. The alternative is
the Air Track proposal—
9587. Sorry, I incorrectly referred to it as
"Air Link", but it is Air Track.
(Mr Berryman) If I could have slide 7 please, this is a section
of a consultation document that has been produced about the proposed
Air Track network.[44]
9588. Produced by whom?
(Mr Berryman) By BAA, and you can see the existing Paddington
link, the Heathrow Express marked in purple, and the Air Track
idea is a line going south to Staines from Terminal 5. From Staines,
trains would go to Guildford, Reading and Waterloo and there would
be two trains an hour from each of those originating points, so
from Reading there would be two trains an hour which go directly
into the airport, into Terminal 5. The advantage of that, as I
said the other day, is that this picks up passengers from a very
wide range of destinations, far more so than would be the case
on the Great Western link, and it does provide that important
link to Reading where Intercity passengers can change to get into
the airport. The station at Terminal 5 has been built with platforms
to accommodate this service and BAA have already committed the
necessary funds to obtain consent for this scheme through a Transport
and Works Act procedure.
9589. We have some of the consultation document
as well, have we not?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, and perhaps I could have page 12 please.[45]
This is the last page of the consultation document which summarises
the timescale. The consultation is already complete; it closed
on 11 April. They propose to deposit a Transport and Works Act
Order early next year, with the assistance of some notably efficient
agents, and they intend to start construction in 2010, so this
will, if it goes to programme, actually finish before Crossrail.
9590. In fact you said that the consultation
has closed, but of course there is a second round of consultation
proposed for the autumn.
(Mr Berryman) I am sorry, I should have said that this round
of consultation has closed.
9591. Yes, and that is before the TWA Order
is made?
(Mr Berryman) That is correct.
9592. LORD SNAPE: These will be third-rail
electric trains, will they?
(Mr Berryman) They will.
9593. So they will be local trains? They will
be EMUs, will they not?
(Mr Berryman) They will be EMUs, yes.
Examined by THE
COMMITTEE
9594. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: Who
owns Heathrow Connect and is that a stopping service?
(Mr Berryman) Heathrow
Connect is a stopping service. It stops at stations between Paddington
and Heathrow Airport junction. It is jointly sponsored by the
TOC for the area, which I think is First Group, and BAA.
9595. Is it well-used?
(Mr Berryman) I believe it is quite well-used, yes.
9596. LORD SNAPE: It is much cheaper,
is it not, than the Heathrow Express?
(Mr Berryman) Well, it is normal fares, unless you are actually
going to Heathrow and then there is a premium if you are going
to Heathrow, but it is not as much as the Heathrow Express. Staff
who work at the airport can get a season ticket which is a similar
cost to what a normal fare would be for a journey of that length.
I think the intention is, and I am not sure how well it has worked
out in practice, that a significant number of the people who use
it will be people who work at the airport.
9597. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: And
it starts at Paddington?
(Mr Berryman) It starts at Paddington.
9598. So what is the benefit of Crossrail going
out to Heathrow, after listening to your explanation? You are
providing a slow service in lieu of a slow service and you are
not sending it to Terminal 5 because there will be confusion for
passengers or for the operators. What actually is the benefit
of this additional run out there?
(Mr Berryman) Well, one of the benefits, and there are many,
would be that people who work at the airport from other parts
of London will find it much easier to get to the airport than
they do now. Paddington is a charming place of course, but it
is not a very easy place to get to. It does not link in very well
with the rest of the transport system.
9599. But people do not come from east London
in great numbers to work at Heathrow.
(Mr Berryman) Not now, but they could do when Crossrail is
built. They would not do it now because the journey would be so
tedious and painful.
42 Crossrail P67, Map of Heathrow (SCN-20080430-043) Back
43
Crossrail P67, The GW Main Line and the Colnbrook branch (SCN-20080430-044) Back
44
Crossrail P67, Air Track Network (SCN-20080430-045) Back
45
Crossrail P67, BAA Consultation Document-Air Track (SCN-20080430-046) Back
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