Select Committee on the Crossrail Bill Minutes of Evidence

Examination of Witnesses (Questions 10840 - 10859)

  10840. I know if there is asbestos then you have got a whole range of other—
  (Mr Berryman) In fact, my Lord, the measures that we will be using for this category 3 site are not dissimilar to those which are used in asbestos sites.

  10841. For a lay person like myself, how effective are the dust suppression techniques that you use? Can you give us a percentage effectiveness?
  (Mr Berryman) I am afraid I cannot, my Lord. All I can say is it is very effective. If you go to these higher level activities. I have no real recollection of a dust complaint—or any recollection of a dust complaint—

  10842. There are no validated sort of records of the effectiveness of dust suppression techniques? That surprises me, given that you say you are using techniques similar to those that you would use with asbestos. There is no way that somebody is going to say: "I think that works pretty well".
  (Mr Berryman) I think, my Lord, there probably have been studies done, but I am not quite sure where we would find them. It is a kind of environmental health issue.

  10843. MR MOULD: Can I take a leaf from my learned friend and just give a bit of evidence? We refer in the deed to a dust monitoring regime and I think it is fair to say, from evidence given by those who are technically experienced in this particular field in the other place, that it has been found that the most effective way of ensuring that these physical measures that your Lordship has been told about actually work is by having real time monitoring of the actual works on the particular site in question as they are going on. Real-time monitoring enables you to test dust and other particulate concentrations in the atmosphere and you can then, obviously, take action if it looks like there is a need to revisit the scene, or whatever it might be, and action to be taken on the basis of what is happening day-to-day. That is what we have agreed to do in this case.
  (Mr Berryman) I was going to come on to that as part of this level of suppression—

  10844. CHAIRMAN: You are going to give evidence as a witness!
  (Mr Berryman) I think I had better not go into that, my Lord. I think, perhaps, what Lord Young was asking was: do we have any records from other jobs where we can demonstrate that this kind of technique is successful? I am sure there are papers on the matter in the relevant professional journals.

  10845. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: I was just trying to address the understandable concerns of the traders, that there is this significant building operation going on and they are concerned that there is going to be significant air pollution. I was trying to investigate the effectiveness of the methods that you are going to use. It seems to me that they are quite strict measures and, in theory, at least, ought to be pretty effective, although we have not got any absolute figures on this. The back-up is that you are continuously monitoring.
  (Mr Berryman) That is correct, my Lord. When we finish the demolition of this we have got to construct the diaphragm walls, which will be built around the site. They will be built using bentonite slurry and ready-mix concrete. We will not be batching on site, so we will not be generating any dust by making concrete on site, and then the excavation of the structure will be constructed in the normal way. Again, it is a question of keeping the site clean and tidy, keeping vehicles well washed before they go out on to the road, damping down all the time and sheeting vehicles as they make their way past the market to go away to tip.

  10846. MR MOULD: Just touching on the question of working out, which has been raised—

  10847. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: Before we go there, could I continue with a question on the Buro Happold report, which is page 108 and 109 of the bundle from the Petitioner.[21] At the top of page 109: "I have been asked to consider whether actionable or airborne dust could be set, such that any excedence of these would lead to further control measures ... etc." It goes on about the Millennium Dome and about the Arsenal Football ground. It talks about site perimeter action level, which I recommend is set for TSP at 0.25 mg/m3." There is a recommendation in there. Have you accepted that?

  (Mr Berryman) We certainly accept the need to set aside perimeter action level. That is the reason for the monitoring that we will be carrying out all the time. That level is not particularly onerous, but the level will be agreed with the local authority.

  10848. It will be agreed with the local authority?
  (Mr Berryman) It will be agreed with the local authority.

  10849. Do you think it will, perhaps, be more demanding than that?
  (Mr Berryman) That looks pretty good to me, actually.

  10850. BARONESS FOOKES: "Pretty good" in which respect?

  10851. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: It is a nice, relaxed one!
  (Mr Berryman) My Lady, I think we need to agree that with the local authority.

  10852. CHAIRMAN: The trouble is, Mr Berryman, that you do not know how easy it is to achieve a figure of 0.25 mg/m3.
  (Mr Berryman) We do not know how easy it is.

  10853. You do not.
  (Mr Berryman) We do not specifically, no, but that is the kind of level that one looks for.

  10854. MR MOULD: One other point which is to do with traffic and parking.
  (Mr Berryman) You did ask me about hours of working.

  10855. I was going to come on to that. Let us deal with the hours of working. Insofar as the Lindsey Street worksite is concerned, can you confirm: on a daily basis, when are the main dust-generating activities likely to start in an ordinary working weekday?
  (Mr Berryman) They would normally start at eight o'clock on a normal working day. This site will generally speaking be within the normal working hours, which are eight till six. There is a slight amount of tunnelling to be done; the escalator shaft from the bottom of this escalator (there is another escalator which goes down that way which will be in tunnel) will need to be done on a 24-hour basis but that will be deep underground, and any dust which is generated will not, generally speaking, come to the surface. So, mostly, this will be done during the normal working hours.

  10856. Just to complete the picture, working hours end at what time in the afternoon?
  (Mr Berryman) Six.

  10857. Can we then, please, come to the loading bay parking issue, for which I will put up the plan that we showed earlier? This is a plan showing the location of loading and parking bays around the four corners of the market complex.[22] Can we focus on Lindsey Street, please. Under the revised scheme for the Lindsey Street works, will it be necessary physically to hoard-off any part of Lindsey Street?

  (Mr Berryman) No, it is not intended to hoard anything off here. There will be a hoarding line along the pavement, along the footpath, at that side, but when we are not making deliveries (and our deliveries will be generally made during the day) that area will be available for parking. So shortly before about eight o'clock those spaces will still be available for general parking.

  10858. Just in order to complete the picture, as regards Smithfield as a whole, we can see that traffic presently moves broadly in a one-way system around the market complex. It is proposed that Crossrail traffic should be routed around at least a part of the Smithfield Market complex, is it not?
  (Mr Berryman) Yes, that is right, to follow the same route as is followed by vehicles now.

  10859. Is it proposed that any of the loading or parking areas at-street which are shown on that plan should be obstructed or hoarded-off or interfered with for the purposes of the Crossrail scheme or not?
  (Mr Berryman) Certainly none of them will be hoarded-off. The only ones which will be interfered with during the day from just before eight o'clock onwards will be that very small group there.

21   Committee Ref: A59, Tier 3 controls, Environmental-Air Quality, Smithfield Market, Buro Happold 2005 (SCN-20080502-043) Back

22   Crossrail Ref: P73, Smithfield Market-Location of Parking and Loading Bays (SCN-20080502-034) Back

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