Examination of Witnesses (Questions 10840
- 10859)
10840. I know if there is asbestos then you
have got a whole range of other—
(Mr Berryman) In fact, my Lord, the measures that we will
be using for this category 3 site are not dissimilar to those
which are used in asbestos sites.
10841. For a lay person like myself, how effective
are the dust suppression techniques that you use? Can you give
us a percentage effectiveness?
(Mr Berryman) I am afraid I cannot, my Lord. All I can say
is it is very effective. If you go to these higher level activities.
I have no real recollection of a dust complaint—or any recollection
of a dust complaint—
10842. There are no validated sort of records
of the effectiveness of dust suppression techniques? That surprises
me, given that you say you are using techniques similar to those
that you would use with asbestos. There is no way that somebody
is going to say: "I think that works pretty well".
(Mr Berryman) I think, my Lord, there probably have been
studies done, but I am not quite sure where we would find them.
It is a kind of environmental health issue.
10843. MR MOULD: Can I take a leaf from
my learned friend and just give a bit of evidence? We refer in
the deed to a dust monitoring regime and I think it is fair to
say, from evidence given by those who are technically experienced
in this particular field in the other place, that it has been
found that the most effective way of ensuring that these physical
measures that your Lordship has been told about actually work
is by having real time monitoring of the actual works on the particular
site in question as they are going on. Real-time monitoring enables
you to test dust and other particulate concentrations in the atmosphere
and you can then, obviously, take action if it looks like there
is a need to revisit the scene, or whatever it might be, and action
to be taken on the basis of what is happening day-to-day. That
is what we have agreed to do in this case.
(Mr Berryman) I was going to come on to that as part of this
level of suppression—
10844. CHAIRMAN: You are going to give
evidence as a witness!
(Mr Berryman) I think I had better not go into that, my Lord.
I think, perhaps, what Lord Young was asking was: do we have any
records from other jobs where we can demonstrate that this kind
of technique is successful? I am sure there are papers on the
matter in the relevant professional journals.
10845. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: I
was just trying to address the understandable concerns of the
traders, that there is this significant building operation going
on and they are concerned that there is going to be significant
air pollution. I was trying to investigate the effectiveness of
the methods that you are going to use. It seems to me that they
are quite strict measures and, in theory, at least, ought to be
pretty effective, although we have not got any absolute figures
on this. The back-up is that you are continuously monitoring.
(Mr Berryman) That is correct, my Lord. When we finish the
demolition of this we have got to construct the diaphragm walls,
which will be built around the site. They will be built using
bentonite slurry and ready-mix concrete. We will not be batching
on site, so we will not be generating any dust by making concrete
on site, and then the excavation of the structure will be constructed
in the normal way. Again, it is a question of keeping the site
clean and tidy, keeping vehicles well washed before they go out
on to the road, damping down all the time and sheeting vehicles
as they make their way past the market to go away to tip.
10846. MR MOULD: Just touching on the
question of working out, which has been raised—
10847. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: Before
we go there, could I continue with a question on the Buro Happold
report, which is page 108 and 109 of the bundle from the Petitioner.[21]
At the top of page 109: "I have been asked to consider whether
actionable or airborne dust could be set, such that any excedence
of these would lead to further control measures ... etc."
It goes on about the Millennium Dome and about the Arsenal Football
ground. It talks about site perimeter action level, which I recommend
is set for TSP at 0.25 mg/m3." There is a recommendation
in there. Have you accepted that?
(Mr Berryman) We certainly accept the need to
set aside perimeter action level. That is the reason for the monitoring
that we will be carrying out all the time. That level is not particularly
onerous, but the level will be agreed with the local authority.
10848. It will be agreed with the local authority?
(Mr Berryman) It will be agreed with the local authority.
10849. Do you think it will, perhaps, be more
demanding than that?
(Mr Berryman) That looks pretty good to me, actually.
10850. BARONESS FOOKES: "Pretty
good" in which respect?
10851. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: It
is a nice, relaxed one!
(Mr Berryman) My Lady, I think we need to agree that with
the local authority.
10852. CHAIRMAN: The trouble is, Mr Berryman,
that you do not know how easy it is to achieve a figure of 0.25
mg/m3.
(Mr Berryman) We do not know how easy it is.
10853. You do not.
(Mr Berryman) We do not specifically, no, but that is the
kind of level that one looks for.
10854. MR MOULD: One other point which
is to do with traffic and parking.
(Mr Berryman) You did ask me about hours of working.
10855. I was going to come on to that. Let us
deal with the hours of working. Insofar as the Lindsey Street
worksite is concerned, can you confirm: on a daily basis, when
are the main dust-generating activities likely to start in an
ordinary working weekday?
(Mr Berryman) They would normally start at eight o'clock
on a normal working day. This site will generally speaking be
within the normal working hours, which are eight till six. There
is a slight amount of tunnelling to be done; the escalator shaft
from the bottom of this escalator (there is another escalator
which goes down that way which will be in tunnel) will need to
be done on a 24-hour basis but that will be deep underground,
and any dust which is generated will not, generally speaking,
come to the surface. So, mostly, this will be done during the
normal working hours.
10856. Just to complete the picture, working
hours end at what time in the afternoon?
(Mr Berryman) Six.
10857. Can we then, please, come to the loading
bay parking issue, for which I will put up the plan that we showed
earlier? This is a plan showing the location of loading and parking
bays around the four corners of the market complex.[22]
Can we focus on Lindsey Street, please. Under the revised scheme
for the Lindsey Street works, will it be necessary physically
to hoard-off any part of Lindsey Street?
(Mr Berryman) No, it is not intended to hoard
anything off here. There will be a hoarding line along the pavement,
along the footpath, at that side, but when we are not making deliveries
(and our deliveries will be generally made during the day) that
area will be available for parking. So shortly before about eight
o'clock those spaces will still be available for general parking.
10858. Just in order to complete the picture,
as regards Smithfield as a whole, we can see that traffic presently
moves broadly in a one-way system around the market complex. It
is proposed that Crossrail traffic should be routed around at
least a part of the Smithfield Market complex, is it not?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, that is right, to follow the same route
as is followed by vehicles now.
10859. Is it proposed that any of the loading
or parking areas at-street which are shown on that plan should
be obstructed or hoarded-off or interfered with for the purposes
of the Crossrail scheme or not?
(Mr Berryman) Certainly none of them will be hoarded-off.
The only ones which will be interfered with during the day from
just before eight o'clock onwards will be that very small group
there.
21 Committee Ref: A59, Tier 3 controls, Environmental-Air
Quality, Smithfield Market, Buro Happold 2005 (SCN-20080502-043) Back
22
Crossrail Ref: P73, Smithfield Market-Location of Parking and
Loading Bays (SCN-20080502-034) Back
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